Initial evidence

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

But what is this teaching that we are all members of the twelve tribes of Israel? But, we just don't know it?

Originally Posted by Amanah

And, because the tribes were scattered among the nations, they are indistinguishable from the gentiles. So we could be of the lost sheep of the house of Israel or just gentiles, it's kind of irrelevant either way.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

A while back, a brother mentioned to me he really never paid much attention to genealogy in the Bible. My reply was that it definitely shows. He later came to understand how important lineage was to the Biblical narrative. Because the lack of teaching concerning lineage, many individuals get lost why Israel paid so much attention to genealogical details. Brother Jesse is another well meaning soul who also misses the mark. Therefore coming up with a teaching that we are somehow unknowingly related to the tribes? Yet, Bible lineage doesn't work that way. Or else the requirements found in Ezra and Nehemiah would be meaningless. Matthew 15:24 is referring to the Northern Kingdom of Israel. Yet, all Israel was to be saved, as explained by Paul the Apostle in Romans 11. Which isn't just made up of Judeans, and Samaritans. But all the Diaspora spread throughout the known Roman world. Plus the Roman world themselves. My dear Brother Jesse misses it as much as Joseph Smith misses John 10:16. Therefore interpreting it as Jesus speaking to the Nephite and Lamanites in the Americas. Also how Mormons believe they are of the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh. British Israelism also teaches that the 12 tribes migrated into Europe and became mingled with the Anglo Saxons. Its movement was in the 1880s, and made its way into early Pentecostalism. Joseph Smith, World Wide Church of God, some Branhamites, believe in British Israelism as well.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I have heard somewhere that British Israelism became Christian Nationalism in the good ol USA. Or at least a first cousin of it. It’s possible that the British in British Israelism turned off the USA patriots causing it to go through a renovation and rebranding. I’m not sure.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

There is British Israelism, and Ethiopian Israelism. Both ended up splitting into supremacists' ideologies. Black Israelites teach they are of the tribes of Israel, as well as some White Nationalist groups.

Wow, a lot to unpack here.

About the geneology issue:

Hosea 1:9 KJV
Then said God, Call his name Lo–ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

The northern House of Israel was divorced by God and therefore lost any legal claim to the name "Israel". They lost their identity as the Israel of God, and were classed on the same level as any other heathen nation. They were invaded, subjugated, and deported from the land by Assyria. The question is, "What happened to them?"

Most people think they just disappeared. Either they vanished into thin air, or were assimilated and absorbed into the various other nations around them. Either way, the common belief is these people essentially ceased to exist.

BUT

Hosea 1:10 KJV
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

1. They would continue to increase in number. And,
2. They would be restored to covenant relationship with God and would be called "the sons (children) of the living God".

So anyone who believes the Bible must necessarily conclude these people did NOT just cease to exist or vanish into thin air or were bred out of any distinct existence.

MOREOVER

Hosea 1:11 KJV
Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

3. These people, in the process of being restored back to God as His children ("the adoption") would join together with Judah under one Head (Messiah).

THEREFORE, anyone who believes the Bible must necessarily also believe that the northern House of Israel not only was NOT "disappeared" into "nonexistence", but that they continued to exist, would increase into a very large number, would be adopted as God's children, and would be joined together with Judah under Christ.

These people would not be expected to maintain any geneologies identifying them as Israelites, if for no other reason than the fact that God Himself would have made sure they had no lawful claim to the name, having divorced them and declaring them to be "Not My People". They lost their identity, plain and simple, as a result of their continued obstinate disobedience.

These people are not, and never were, "Jews". They were not members of the kingdom of Judah, they did not follow the first century religion of Judaism. They were heathens (religiously) since at least the time of Jeroboam and likely long before. They never had any national repentance or revival or reformation (as Judah had several times).

They did however receive the Gospel, and were joined with their Judahite kinsmen:

Romans 9:22-26 KJV
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, [24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? [25] As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. [26] And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

The Jews (Judeans, house of Judah), and the Gentiles ("nations") were being joined together as one people in Christ in the first century, according to Paul, in direct fulfillment of the prophecy in Hosea concerning the northern House of Israel and the house of Judah being joined together in Christ. Therefore, the ethnoi, or gentiles, that Paul spoke of, and to whom he ministered, were none other than the descendants of the northern house of Israel.

Abraham was to be the father (ancestor) of many nations ("ethnoi", or "gentiles"), through his grandson Jacob/Israel. The Israelite people were prophesied by God to become a bunch of nations (not just one rather insignificant nation stuck in the desert in the mideast):

Genesis 35:10-11 KJV
And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. [11] And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

In fact, just one half-tribe was to increase in number to become a "multitude of nations":

Genesis 48:17-19 KJV
And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head. [18] And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head. [19] And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

According to the Bible, the Israelites were to become a multitude of nations. Why most professing Christians choose not to believe their Bibles is beyond me, and beyond the scope of this discussion, but there it is. So, in trying to figure out "who are the Israelites of Scripture", the Bible student will be looking for a large multitude of nations recognizing Jesus as the Christ, who having spread abroad to all directions of the compass have nevertheless been a blessing to every family, tribe, and nation, who have taken the knowledge of God to every corner of the earth and to every people group in the world. That would be a good start.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Wow, a lot to unpack here.

About the geneology issue:

Hosea 1:9 KJV
Then said God, Call his name Lo–ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

The northern House of Israel was divorced by God and therefore lost any legal claim to the name "Israel". They lost their identity as the Israel of God, and were classed on the same level as any other heathen nation. They were invaded, subjugated, and deported from the land by Assyria. The question is, "What happened to them?"

Most people think they just disappeared. Either they vanished into thin air, or were assimilated and absorbed into the various other nations around them. Either way, the common belief is these people essentially ceased to exist.

BUT

Hosea 1:10 KJV
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

1. They would continue to increase in number. And,
2. They would be restored to covenant relationship with God and would be called "the sons (children) of the living God".

So anyone who believes the Bible must necessarily conclude these people did NOT just cease to exist or vanish into thin air or were bred out of any distinct existence.

MOREOVER

Hosea 1:11 KJV
Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

3. These people, in the process of being restored back to God as His children ("the adoption") would join together with Judah under one Head (Messiah).

THEREFORE, anyone who believes the Bible must necessarily also believe that the northern House of Israel not only was NOT "disappeared" into "nonexistence", but that they continued to exist, would increase into a very large number, would be adopted as God's children, and would be joined together with Judah under Christ.

These people would not be expected to maintain any geneologies identifying them as Israelites, if for no other reason than the fact that God Himself would have made sure they had no lawful claim to the name, having divorced them and declaring them to be "Not My People". They lost their identity, plain and simple, as a result of their continued obstinate disobedience.

These people are not, and never were, "Jews". They were not members of the kingdom of Judah, they did not follow the first century religion of Judaism. They were heathens (religiously) since at least the time of Jeroboam and likely long before. They never had any national repentance or revival or reformation (as Judah had several times).

They did however receive the Gospel, and were joined with their Judahite kinsmen:

Romans 9:22-26 KJV
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, [24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? [25] As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. [26] And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

The Jews (Judeans, house of Judah), and the Gentiles ("nations") were being joined together as one people in Christ in the first century, according to Paul, in direct fulfillment of the prophecy in Hosea concerning the northern House of Israel and the house of Judah being joined together in Christ. Therefore, the ethnoi, or gentiles, that Paul spoke of, and to whom he ministered, were none other than the descendants of the northern house of Israel.

Abraham was to be the father (ancestor) of many nations ("ethnoi", or "gentiles"), through his grandson Jacob/Israel. The Israelite people were prophesied by God to become a bunch of nations (not just one rather insignificant nation stuck in the desert in the mideast):

Genesis 35:10-11 KJV
And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. [11] And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

In fact, just one half-tribe was to increase in number to become a "multitude of nations":

Genesis 48:17-19 KJV
And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head. [18] And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head. [19] And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

According to the Bible, the Israelites were to become a multitude of nations. Why most professing Christians choose not to believe their Bibles is beyond me, and beyond the scope of this discussion, but there it is. So, in trying to figure out "who are the Israelites of Scripture", the Bible student will be looking for a large multitude of nations recognizing Jesus as the Christ, who having spread abroad to all directions of the compass have nevertheless been a blessing to every family, tribe, and nation, who have taken the knowledge of God to every corner of the earth and to every people group in the world. That would be a good start.

Thank you

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

According to the Bible, the Israelites were to become a multitude of nations. Why most professing Christians choose not to believe their Bibles is beyond me, and beyond the scope of this discussion, but there it is. So, in trying to figure out "who are the Israelites of Scripture", the Bible student will be looking for a large multitude of nations recognizing Jesus as the Christ, who having spread abroad to all directions of the compass have nevertheless been a blessing to every family, tribe, and nation, who have taken the knowledge of God to every corner of the earth and to every people group in the world. That would be a good start.

A rousing AMEN!

[Amanah]

My Elder posted this on Facebook to also include JWs SoF:
"The journey back to the Apostolic faith and doctrine of the 1st century is a journey that requires us to prayerfully examine the Scriptures in context as they pertain to the doctrines listed below and more. It is a worthy and noble journey with great reward! Begin your journey back to the original faith today!"
Below are the shared thoughts of my Bishop, Jesse White. Amen!"

********
Here is what I posted on Facebook:
My Statement of Faith (work in progress)

The Bible is the inspired Word of God and contains all we need to live a godly life (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

The One God is manifest as the Father in creation (John 5:43), the Son in redemption (Matthew 1:21), the Holy Spirit indwelling believers (Acts 2).

Salvation is:
- Repentance and separation from the world (Luke 13:3, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18)
- Baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sins (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 19:5)
- Receiving the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (Acts 2:38, 10:44-47, 19:6)

The new covenant is the law written on our hearts by the Spirit (Hebrews 8:10, 2 Corinthians 3:3).

The Ten Commandments have not been abolished (Matthew 5:17-19, Luke 16:17). Jesus said, "If you love me, then keep my commandments" (John 14:15), which include the 7th day Sabbath (4th commandment, Exodus 20:8-11).

Separation from the world includes:
- Not participating in the pagan calendar and holidays (Daniel 3:1-18, 1 Corinthians 10:20-21)
- Celebrating God's calendar and feast days (Leviticus 23)

The Bible tells us the meek will inherit the earth (Psalm 37:11, Matthew 5:5). Our blessed hope is:
- The resurrection to immortality (1 Corinthians 15:50-54, Revelation 20:6)
- Participating with Christ's reign on the earth (Revelation 5:10, 20:4-6)

There is no rapture to heaven. (Matthew 25:31-46, Revelation 20:11-15). We are either resurrected to immortality to reign on the earth or to eternal destruction (Matthew 10:28, 25:46).

[Amanah]

Dueling statements of faith.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Dueling statements of faith.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

"The journey back to the Apostolic faith and doctrine of the 1st century is a journey that requires us to prayerfully examine the Scriptures in context as they pertain to the doctrines listed below and more.

You know, I think this is a huge part of the problem with so many groups (and individuals) today. They are on a "journey BACK" to the apostolic faith. Meaning, they are starting from a religious Christianised religious background, and going through the dogmas and beliefs they have one by one and trying to work their way back to the "original" faith. And I understand. Many have been raised in a church of some kind or flavor.

As for me, I wasn't raised in a church. So I have no "previous tradition" to "re-examine" other than my previous position of being an out of control pagan idolater. And when I began my Christian journey, from the very start, like day 1, the mission was to "have what those people in the Bible had". So every encounter I had with any teaching was a matter of examining what was being offered in light of Scripture. As well as studying the Bible - not so much to "examine" some particular teaching, but to just find out what does the Bible teach? So I don't really think of my Christian journey as a journey "back" except in the sense that I am journeying "back" to God and the original faith from the standpoint of being a lost heathen.

But I think what happens is a lot of people have a lot of beliefs, and begin examining things maybe one by one, and during the process they become more apostolic, but still have all these non-apostolic, non-Biblical beliefs floating around in their life, coloring how they view things (even their new-found apostolic truths). And I think we see this in the NT itself, as many of the early Christians were looking at things through their Pharisee backgrounds, or in the case of Gentiles through some of their pagan philosophical backgrounds. And I get it, it's often hard to just "wipe the slate clean" and "start with a blank slate". We are the product of our experiences and beliefs, and that affects (and effects) where we go and how we get there.

Ok, I'm just rambling now.

[Amanah]

Written by JW:

I am often asked about the online posts of newer CACI people who seem to be addressing things very differently than the CACI's Apostolic Council.

Allow me to share our approach of great grace on these matters...

Joining the true Apostolic Fellowship.

Many believe that they learned 95% of the doctrines they needed before joining CACI.

We tend to trust our former Pentecostal Paradigms, and we assume we merely need to "add" some Torah perspectives to our Pentecostalism.

This could not be further from the truth.

There is no less than a 2-3 year education that is required to come to the 1st Century "APOSTOLIC" faith.

It is almost 100% certain that the newly Appointed and Ordained Ministry is still "Pentecostal" rather than "Apostolic" on most of the topics which I will list below...

- Are we going to heaven
- Rapture escapism
- What is the coming Kingdom
- Is the church a charitable organization / a religious institution / or a government..
- What is a Bishop
- What is a Council of Elders
- What is a Minister
- Is Ordination necessary
- Ladies' roles in Ministry
- How congregations were structured in the Apostolic century
- Are congregations autonomous or interconnected
- What is "Born Again"
- What is the Lord's Table
- The influence of Wesleyan/Methodism/Puritianism on modern Pentecostalism
- Rightly Dividing the Torah
- Jezebel in the early church
- Why 2 Resurrections
- What is the difference in "Inheriting" the Kingdom and being invited to live under the Govt of the Kingdom
- Are we in the Kingdom now
- When do we "Do greater things" than Jesus did
- What and when is the "Earnest of our inheritance" vs our Inheritance.
- Who may enter New Jerusalem
- How do "the Nations" access the leaves of the tree of Life if they can not enter the City.
- Why do the Nations need the leaves in the coming Kingdom
- When do those "in hell" consume away into smoke
- Can souls die
- At death does the "Soul" go back to God, or does the breath go back to God
- Are the dead around the throne praising God
- Are the dead conscious or experiencing thoughts
- The list goes on....

The foundation of many of these is laid in the...

- 4 Keys of the Kingdom
- 4 Pillars of the Apostolic Faith

Please know that most arrive here with virtually NO understanding of these things.

How should we react?

1. Be very teachable. You have been welcomed into a 1st century Apostolic Council. Pursue, welcome, embrace, study "together" in council.

2. Realize with humility that we are not called to be Pentecostal 2.0. There is alot to learn. It does not yet appear what we shall be.

3. Be slow to adamately answer doctrinal questions online if you have not taken the tine to vet your answers through a true Apostolic Council.

4. Extend grace to newer CACI Ministers who may be answering questions incorrectly. It takes time to get people to learn the value of Apostolic Council and Unity.

Finally, we are on a historic precipice. There is a regathering in our time of the Apostles & Prophets. The restoration of the Apostolic Church ahead of the Kingdom Age. We are being called together into one voice to declare ALL THE WORD TO ALL THE WORLD.

Shalom
Bishop J White

[Amanah]

I appreciate being able to come here and bounce topics off the Elders here because there is definitely a difference between UPCI and CACI.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Finally, we are on a historic precipice. There is a regathering in our time of the Apostles & Prophets. The restoration of the Apostolic Church ahead of the Kingdom Age. We are being called together into one voice to declare ALL THE WORD TO ALL THE WORLD.

Ok, this is my question to Campbellites. If they are currently the only issuers of the "Restored Truth?" Then how much of their "Restored Truth" have they been restoring these days? How many of these CACI congregations, groups, or tribes are down here in South Florida?

Originally Posted by Amanah

Shalom
Bishop J White

This is another pet peeve of mine. Shalom? What's up with the shaloming everyone? Brother Jesse doesn't speak Hebrew. Does he preach in Hebrew? Does he talk in Hebrew at home? My wife speaks Greek with her relatives, her mother, my daughters. But I never EVER hear her speak a greeting or a blessing of peace in Greek to non Greek speakers. Hallelujah, I get. We are raised saying that whether in Church or on the street. Even secular people will use the term. But SHALOM? Whatever, it's just a lay over from Hebrew roots movement. Where they picture Jesus and the 12 Apostles as Bedouins. Believing they never spoke a word in any other language then Hebrew. I can hear the rabbis rolling on the floor holding their stomachs while laughing.. When they hear Shalom with a southern twang.