Suits: Guilt By Association

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Oh boy...

I never said that Jesus was a Levite. I only explained what I was trying to recall was, it was in reference to the Levites, not Jesus, was my point. Please go back and read it S-L-O-W-L-Y. I was correcting myself.

Now, with regards to Jesus...

Jesus was repeatedly called "rabbi", even by Pharisees (Nicodemus). He was a recognized teacher, although rabbis didn't go through any formal ordination in those times. A rabbi kinda made a name for himself by using his gift of teaching. In some ways the title was bestowed on men more akin to the way the title of "sage" or "guru" is attributed to men informally by their followers today. And clearly Jesus a recognized teacher, for everyone called him "rabbi", and he was indeed permitted to teach in the synagogues and the temple, which means His reputation was established. But it should be noted that Jesus didn't just walk up and take the platform in the temple. He taught in the courts in informal huddles on the temple grounds, as many rabbis did. He wasn't a part of the formal religious institution of His day (scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, etc.).

So, Jesus wasn't taking just taking authority from the established leaders by teaching informally in the courts of the temple. The question of where His authority came from to do such things was a reference to His casting out the money changers the previous day.

Matthew 21:12-27 (ESV)
Jesus Cleanses the Temple
12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. 13 He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you make it a den of robbers.”
14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them. 15 But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant, 16 and they said to him, “Do you hear what these are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read,
“‘Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies
you have prepared praise’?”
17 And leaving them, he went out of the city to Bethany and lodged there.
Jesus Curses the Fig Tree
18 In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he became hungry. 19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside, he went to it and found nothing on it but only leaves. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once.
20 When the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither at once?” 21 And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen. 22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”
The Authority of Jesus Challenged
23 And when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him as he was teaching, and said, “By what authority are you doing these things, and who gave you this authority?” 24 Jesus answered them, “I also will ask you one question, and if you tell me the answer, then I also will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25 The baptism of John, from where did it come? From heaven or from man?” And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘From man,’ we are afraid of the crowd, for they all hold that John was a prophet.” 27 So they answered Jesus, “We do not know.” And he said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.

Aquila you did just create a total straw man here you said Jesus was in a rabbinical rotation at the synagogue like Zecharius. Zecharius was a Levite so yes, but Jesus couldn't be He came from the wrong tribe.
And what Nicodemus said is a bad example, because what he said came from faith. Not because Jesus was the newest, hottest rabbi to come up in the ranks down at the synagogue.

As to what you said some is understandable, but Jesus did just come and take authority. And there was nothing they could do about it because it is as it says in Romans 13:1-7 it was given to Him from above.

Just repent of saying He was in the rabbinical rotation down at the synagogue, thats just ridiculous. And if you have no source for that, that's Aquilapedia 4.0 for real.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

that's Aquilapedia 4.0 .

[Michael The Disciple]

161 posts on this topic and not ONE PERSON has given us a reason why they wear suits that would not sound like a reason a man would want to wear a beard.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

161 posts on this topic and not ONE PERSON has given us a reason why they wear suits that would not sound like a reason a man would want to wear a beard.

Besides the fact this statement doesn't make any sense to me, I'm starting to think this isn't a forum for discussion, but an alley for folks to scream, yell, shout, and vent their spleen.

Anyway, in case anyone tried to peer through the caterwauling:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Ezekiel 44:19
(19) And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.

In this statement to Ezekiel there is a concept presented, that if the priests went to the common people out in the outer court wearing their priestly garments (in which they had performed ministry) this would "sanctify the people". The idea here is that one "sanctifies" something by the clothes they wear.

Now, for those of us who believe in keeping the Sabbath, we believe that we are to "sanctify" that day (keep it HOLY, or "sanctified"), as it is written:

Deuteronomy 5:12
(12) Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

So one of the ways in which we sanctify the Sabbath is by wearing clothes that we do not ordinarily wear during the week. The Sabbath is one of the "feasts" (festival occasions), so one of the ways it is sanctified is by wearing "festive garments".

This concept is most easily understood when you consider any kind of "special occasion", say taking your mother out to eat on Mother's Day, or going to a wedding, or a funeral, or visiting family on thanksgiving Day, etc. In each of these occasions, most people will "dress for the occasion". They will wear something nice, something they don't wear every day. The reason? Because you can "sanctify" a day, an occasion, an event, etc by how you dress. By "sanctify" is meant, in it's most basic form, to signify that the occasion or event or day is "special" and "not ordinary".

Church (the meeting), is of course, a "special occasion". We are not only coming together, but coming before the presence of God in a more formal sense. Surely, we are always in the presence of God, because He is omnipresent at all times. Yet, when we gather to worship and fellowship with the Lord and with one another, it is a "special occasion", and one of the ways to signify this is by wearing clothing that signifies the same.

This of course doesn't mean one MUST wear a suit and tie. In fact, if one wore a suit and tie every day for work, there would be nothing "special" about wearing the same suit to church or any other event. So, perhaps for an executive professional wearing a suit for church may not be the way to go. Or some alteration to the suit may be in order (a change of colour, that is not normally worn, or the addition of one of those coloured hanky things that people like to stick in their breast pocket, or maybe even a subtraction, like omitting the tie). The idea is simply to dress in a way that is not ordinary and common to the rest of the week. By doing this one is signifying that they are participating in something out of the ordinary or profane, and rather participating in something holy or dedicated to more spiritual matters. Again, no hard and fast rule.

If you had a meeting with the company president, you might dress differently than if you were just hanging at the house after work, or even differently than your normal everyday work attire. You might "dress up" just a bit. (And of course, overdoing it is just as much of a social faux pas as being too casual, in many cases.)

So basically, wearing your "Sunday best" is an ancient concept and is in fact grounded in a Biblical principle.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

161 posts on this topic and not ONE PERSON has given us a reason why they wear suits that would not sound like a reason a man would want to wear a beard.

? Do what? What do you mean? And why do people have to fight for the validity of a suit Btw?

It's simple if you go to a church that preaches against suits don't wear'em. If they preach against beards don't wear'em. Otherwise do it man. But don't try to make church standards, fit to your idea of standards. Well unless it's your church. But don't go to established church, and be like now that I arrived I want you to bend this for me. Find a place you can get in, and get behind the man of God. If their in false doctrine well find a new church. But if it's something as small as suits, beards, or colored shirts who cares. If the glory is there, get in and get with it. Nowadays there's so many people who are even Apostolic's that don't know anything about a real move of God. All the programs in the world can never take place of that. I venture to say there is a church in every city, but you have to find it. Don't gage a church off of anything besides how strong the presence of God is. And wherever you feel it the strongest take that confirmation from God, and do whatever your asked. In that obedience to the ministry, you will find huge blessing. Even if you don't understand it.

Just look for God, where He is the strongest is where you need to be. Let all the rest of this stuff go. That's what I did, and because of that God has blessed me beyond words. GOD BLESS YOU Brother Mike. Love, and peace sent to you and yours, in Jesus Name! (I just feel stirred up to tell you that.)

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Besides the fact this statement doesn't make any sense to me, I'm starting to think this isn't a forum for discussion, but an alley for folks to scream, yell, shout, and vent their spleen.

Anyway, in case anyone tried to peer through the caterwauling:

I said in reply to your post the same concept that would apply to one wearing a suit would be found in Lev. 19:27 in regards to wearing a beard.

To which you seemed to agree.

That has been my point in this thread.

If you or someone else wanted to "dress up" on occasion on the basis of OT scripture what would be wrong with a man wanting to identify with Gods word by wearing a beard which is either outright commanded or at least strongly favored in that same Covenant?

[Michael The Disciple]

Chosen 1

? Do what? What do you mean? And why do people have to fight for the validity of a suit Btw?

But why do men have to fight for the validity of wearing a beard? It has every bit as much sanction in the Bible as wearing a suit.

It's simple if you go to a church that preaches against suits don't wear'em. If they preach against beards don't wear'em. Otherwise do it man. But don't try to make church standards, fit to your idea of standards. Well unless it's your church. But don't go to established church, and be like now that I arrived I want you to bend this for me. Find a place you can get in, and get behind the man of God. If their in false doctrine well find a new church. But if it's something as small as suits, beards, or colored shirts who cares.

In other words just follow any old "standard" the Preacher may want to invent.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Chosen 1



But why do men have to fight for the validity of wearing a beard? It has every bit as much sanction in the Bible as wearing a suit.


In other words just follow any old "standard" the Preacher may want to invent.

If the person is in total era then the glory of God will depart Michael. If the confirmation of God's presence is in that place strongly, then go with God. I don't know how much plainer I can explain this. But you can't be opposing everything and be in unity at the same time, it's impossible.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

If the person is in total era then the glory of God will depart Michael. If the confirmation of God's presence is in that place strongly, then go with God. I don't know how much plainer I can explain this. But you can't be opposing everything and be in unity at the same time, it's impossible.

Chosen,

I have felt Gods presence many times. Sometimes in Church meetings. More often not in Church meetings. I have experienced many manifestations of the Holy Ghost beyond "feelings" altho I strongly believe God bears witness allowing us to "feel" him.

I only oppose what is false and only seek unity with truth.

Peace and love to you

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I said in reply to your post the same concept that would apply to one wearing a suit would be found in Lev. 19:27 in regards to wearing a beard.

To which you seemed to agree.

That has been my point in this thread.

If you or someone else wanted to "dress up" on occasion on the basis of OT scripture what would be wrong with a man wanting to identify with Gods word by wearing a beard which is either outright commanded or at least strongly favored in that same Covenant?

I was simply pointing out that you said "nobody" had posted any kind of defense of wearing suits. As I mentioned, I did not understand what you meant by "a reason that doesn't sound like a reason for wearing a beard". I still don't know what that was supposed to mean.

Leviticus 19:27 prohibits shaving the head and the beard. There is no Scriptural prohibition against not wearing a suit. So I'm not sure how Lev 19:27 applies to suit wearing?

I agreed with you on Lev 19:27 as far as it applies to beards, because that's what the text applies to. Those who teach Christian men ought to shave their beards for religious reasons are out of step with Scripture, in my opinion. Those who teach Christian men ought to wear their Sunday best for church are not out of step with Scripture, at least as far as that goes. Again, in my opinion and based upon my study of Scripture and history.