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  #161  
Old 03-01-2017, 11:37 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Bringing Protest & Disruption To Church:

Most know that I'm a house churcher. What they might not know is that I still visit several churches that I feel are edifying on occasion. We even have house church members who meet with us on Saturday in house church and also attend their traditional churches on Sunday. But I've had to decide to stop attending some of the churches I've come to like. They openly praise Trump from the pulpit. They condemn sanctuary churches who sincerely feel the need to offer sanctuary to the undocumented and refugees as being apostates. No, they sincerely feel it is part of the church's mandate to help the outcast, the stranger, and the suffering. I've heard remarks that boarder on open racist remarks. I've heard one pastor talk about Trump and equating him to being a last days king called to restore the wall and bring revival to God's church. He took all this from a passage of the NIV:
Ezekiel 22:27-30 New International Version (NIV)
27 Her officials within her are like wolves tearing their prey; they shed blood and kill people to make unjust gain. 28 Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says’—when the Lord has not spoken. 29 The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the foreigner, denying them justice.

30 “I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found no one.
This pastor said that the church had better pray for Trump and support him because Trump's wall will be both physical and spiritual and that if any man criticizes or disagrees with Trump he will be cut off in these last days. Because God found no one to build the wall in Israel's day, but has chosen and lifted up a man to build the wall in our day.

This pastor went as far as to say that he prays that Trump send forth "troops" (yes he said "troops") to round up the undocumented. He then went on to say that if they can't be rounded up and put on boats to go home, they should drop them in the sea. Then he went on some rant about how he isn't going to stand here and allow America to be destroyed by invading armies of immigrants and refugees. The man praised Trump like there was no tomorrow.

What I took away from his message was:
- Trump is a prophetic king chosen of God to build a "wall" and damnation follows anyone to criticizes him.
- That he supports Trump using military soldiers to search and sweep civilian homes for undocumented immigrants and refugees.
- That if it is not possible to use boats to send them home, they should be drowned.
- That immigrants and refugees are invaders we are to fear and remove or eliminate.
- That it doesn't matter if Putin (a murderous enemy that undermines our interests) illegally helped Trump.
- That Putin was more righteous than Obama because Putin has crushed the homosexual agenda and doesn't tolerate "snoopy reporters" who "stick their noses where they don't belong".
- That Trump will bring blessing and prosperity and revival to America, and if America doesn't get on board with Trump, there "will be famine" and hardship. And the only way to overcome it will be to dedicate ourselves to re-elect him to give America "one last chance".
After all that, my stomach turned. I had to stand up and leave. It was more like a fascist "Trump cult" meeting with a message that was teaching radical fascism and racism. Even hinting about accepting genocide. And while he was preaching, the congregation was standing, and clapping, and shouting their support and agreement. I honestly felt like something demonic was at work.

I believe Trump is a corrupt buffoon, an embarrassment of a President. I believe his policies are un-American and his vision is fascist. I believe he's Russia's lap dog and will leave millions languishing without the healthcare they need. I realized at that moment that unless you're a right-wing Republican, you most likely will not find a traditional church to attend where you can feel at home and seek the Kingdom of God for you and your family.

One thing that I found really ironic is, the passage he chose to preach from to praise Trump...actually condemns everything Trump and the current Republican Congress is doing:
- Shed blood and kill people for unjust gain (war for profit).
- Work in collusion with a whitewashing clergy that preaches lies and false visions and messages.
- Policies that eliminate regulatory measures to allow for extortion and robbery on Wall Street.
- Policies that are oppressive to the poor and needy with regards to numerous programs and healthcare.
- The mistreatment of foreigners (immigrants, the undocumented, and refugees) and the depriving them of justice.
It's like a big spiritual bait and switch. Moderation and justice for all people is now considered evil.... and oppression and heavy handedness on the poor, needy, and foreigners is praised as being somehow good. Regulations to protect the average Joe's investments is "evil socialism", but deregulation that allows for junk bonds, predatory lending, and broker profit investment schemes that help the broker get rich of a retiree's investments is good.

After reading the story about taking protest and disruption to the churches, I felt like I should have stood up, shouted him down, and rebuked the man by challenging him to preach JESUS instead of Trump.

It's these kinds of pastors and churches that I find disturbing. I believe they need to be shouted down and openly revealed and condemned.

Last edited by Aquila; 03-01-2017 at 12:00 PM.
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  #162  
Old 03-01-2017, 11:40 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Bringing Protest & Disruption To Church:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
This is the trend today. We state a principle in the bible and apply it to a situation, and we are accused of judging. lol. The truth like you stated is that GOD SAID IT. NOT US.
No. You're misunderstanding me. You wouldn't be judging to admonish me to be careful and to remember that what others see effects them. However, you're going a little farther into the realm of condemnation. That's where I say you're making a judgment.

Honestly, I do see your point. You're talking to me like all this is new to me. I've been in church for over 22 years. I know every passage you've cut and pasted at me. And I thank you because you've given me some things to remember and consider. But I felt like the Spirit desired me to go for some reason. And I am convinced that it has to do with Sarah and her future deliverance.

Last edited by Aquila; 03-01-2017 at 12:01 PM.
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  #163  
Old 03-01-2017, 11:45 AM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,121
Re: Bringing Protest & Disruption To Church:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Most know that I'm a house churcher. What they might not know is that I still visit several churches that I feel are edifying on occasion. We even have house church members who meet with us on Saturday in house church and also attend their traditional churches on Sunday. But I've had to decide to stop attending some of the churches I've come to like. They openly praise Trump from the pulpit. They condemn sanctuary churches who sincerely feel the need to offer sanctuary to the undocumented and refugees as being apostates. No, they sincerely feel it is part of the church's mandate to help the outcast, the stranger, and the suffering. I've heard remarks that boarder on open racist remarks. I've heard one pastor talk about Trump and equating him to being a last days king called to restore the wall and bring revival to God's church. He took all this from a passage of the NIV:
Ezekiel 22:27-30 New International Version (NIV)
27 Her officials within her are like wolves tearing their prey; they shed blood and kill people to make unjust gain. 28 Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says’—when the Lord has not spoken. 29 The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the foreigner, denying them justice.

30 “I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found no one.
This pastor said that the church had better pray for Trump and support him because Trump's wall will be both physical and spiritual and that if any man criticizes or disagrees with Trump he will be cut off in these last days. Because God found no one to build the wall in Israel's day, but has chosen and lifted up a man to build the wall in our day.

This pastor went as far as to say that he prays that Trump send forth "troops" (yes he said "troops") to round up the undocumented. He then went on to say that if they can't be rounded up and put on boats to go home, they should drop them in the sea. Then he went on some rant about how he isn't going to stand here and allow America to be destroyed by invading armies of immigrants and refugees. The man praised Trump like there was no tomorrow.

What I took away from his message was:
- Trump is a prophetic king chosen of God to build a "wall" and damnation follows anyone to criticizes him.
- That he supports Trump using military soldiers to search and sweep civilian homes for undocumented immigrants and refugees.
- That if it is not possible to use boats to send them home, they should be drowned.
- That immigrants and refugees are invaders we are to fear and remove or eliminate.
- That it doesn't matter if Putin (a murderous enemy that undermines our interests) illegally helped Trump.
- That Putin was more righteous than Obama because Putin has crushed the homosexual agenda and doesn't tolerate "snoopy reporters" who "stick their noses where they don't belong".
- That Trump will bring blessing and prosperity and revival to America, and if America doesn't get on board with Trump, there "will be famine" and hardship. And the only way to overcome it will be to dedicate ourselves to re-elect him to give America "one last chance".
After all that, my stomach turned. I had to stand up and leave. It was more like a fascist "Trump cult" meeting with a message that was teaching radical fascism and racism. Even hinting about accepting genocide. And while he was preaching, the congregation was standing, and clapping, and shouting their support and agreement. I honestly felt like something demonic was at work.

I believe Trump is a corrupt buffoon, an embarrassment of a President. I believe his policies are un-American and his vision is fascist. I believe he's Russia's lap dog and will leave millions languishing without the healthcare they need. I realized at that moment that unless you're a right-wing Republican, you most likely will not find a traditional church to attend where you can feel at home and seek the Kingdom of God for you and your family.

After reading the story about taking protest and disruption to the churches, I felt like I should have stood up shouted him down and rebuked the man by challenging him to preach JESUS instead of Trump.

It's these kinds of pastors and churches that I find disturbing. I believe they need to be shouted down and openly revealed and condemned.
A - does this church record their services? I would like to hear that "message".
If you do not feel comfortable posting in the forum can you pm me?
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  #164  
Old 03-01-2017, 11:51 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Bringing Protest & Disruption To Church:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76 View Post
A - does this church record their services? I would like to hear that "message".
If you do not feel comfortable posting in the forum can you pm me?
I can try to find out. Honestly, I have no interest in even going back there ever again.

Oh, I added to the post you quoted above. You might find it interesting or relevant to the conversation somehow.

Last edited by Aquila; 03-01-2017 at 11:54 AM.
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  #165  
Old 03-01-2017, 11:55 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Bringing Protest & Disruption To Church:

How many of you would agree with such a message???
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  #166  
Old 03-01-2017, 12:19 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Bringing Protest & Disruption To Church:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
How many of you would agree with such a message???
I'd have to hear the message. I've learned not to trust your "reporting".
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  #167  
Old 03-01-2017, 01:10 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Bringing Protest & Disruption To Church:

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I'd have to hear the message. I've learned not to trust your "reporting".
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  #168  
Old 03-01-2017, 01:13 PM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Bringing Protest & Disruption To Church:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
How many of you would agree with such a message???
I wasn't there, so unless I can watch a video of the message I won't agree or disagree. Your synopsis of the message is tinged with your own personal and political bias, so I'm not willing to base any opinion off of that.
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  #169  
Old 03-01-2017, 01:15 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Bringing Protest & Disruption To Church:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I'd have to hear the message. I've learned not to trust your "reporting".
That's fair.

Let's assume a church did exactly as I described, and you verified it for yourself, would you agree with such a message?
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  #170  
Old 03-01-2017, 01:17 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Bringing Protest & Disruption To Church:

Quote:
Originally Posted by n david View Post
I wasn't there, so unless I can watch a video of the message I won't agree or disagree. Your synopsis of the message is tinged with your own personal and political bias, so I'm not willing to base any opinion off of that.
All ask you what I asked Esaias.

Let's assume a church did exactly as I described, and you verified it for yourself, would you agree with such a message?
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