Receiving The Holy Spirit & Speaking In Tongues - Page 17

KeptByTheWord · #**161** 02-18-2017, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Salvation occurs at the hearing of well done thou good and faithful servant. If you will note all the the shall's in the scriptures that you have posted. Repentance is a heart thing and not just a word thing. Faith is more than a confession. It will be God who decides who is lost or saved and not You or me. We should tell people to follow the word of God completely. We shouldn't be telling anyone that the Bible doesn't explicitly say this so it is not salvational. If we think we can complete a certain formula and force God's hand at the judgement we are mistaken.

If, as you say (which I believe too, by the way) that salvation has an ending at "well done thou good and faithful servant", must it also have a beginning? How can it have an ending, without a beginning?

So therefore we must conclude, salvation has a beginning and an ending.

Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan

We must have Spirit of God.

Yes I agree. And does not this scripture agree as well, that upon believing, something miraculous happens:

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

KeptByTheWord · #**162** 02-18-2017, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jito463

So you won't affirm if you believe that. Okay, I guess we're done. If you won't say what you believe one way or the other, I don't see any point in continuing.

Can you say you believe anything other than the word of God? That is exactly what I have said. I believe what the scripture I quoted said.

good samaritan · #**163** 02-18-2017, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

If, as you say (which I believe too, by the way) that salvation has an ending at "well done thou good and faithful servant", must it also have a beginning? How can it have an ending, without a beginning?

So therefore we must conclude, salvation has a beginning and an ending.

Quote:

Salvation has an ending and a beginning? Salvation is an event. If I jump in front of a car to knock someone out of the way they are saved once I have pushed them out of the way. It is not till that point that they are saved. This is why the word shall is used so often.

Yes I agree. And does not this scripture agree as well, that upon believing, something miraculous happens:

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

I don't know where this scripture fits in what you are saying. John 7:38 is refering to the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, which is accopomanied by the evidence of tongues.

Esaias · #**164** 02-18-2017, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Ah, but that's not what it says...

KBTW affirmed "he that believes and is baptized is saved." But it doesn't say that. Jesus said "he that believes and is baptized SHALL BE saved."

Sort of like "repent and be baptized... and you SHALL RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Or like, "as many as received Him, to them He gave power TO BECOME the sons of God..."

mfblume · #**165** 02-18-2017, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

KBTW affirmed "he that believes and is baptized is saved." But it doesn't say that. Jesus said "he that believes and is baptized SHALL BE saved."

Sort of like "repent and be baptized... and you SHALL RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Or like, "as many as received Him, to them He gave power TO BECOME the sons of God..."

It's cause and effect.

JamesGlen · #**166** 02-20-2017, 08:41 AM

KBTW,
What should be the reply of someone whom we would ask, have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed, if they had only repented, or only repented and had been baptized, but had not even heard of receiving the Holy Ghost or speaking in tongues, - yes?

Forgive me if this particular case has already been brought up...

KeptByTheWord · #**167** 02-20-2017, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

KBTW,
What should be the reply of someone whom we would ask, have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed, if they had only repented, or only repented and had been baptized, but had not even heard of receiving the Holy Ghost or speaking in tongues, - yes?

Forgive me if this particular case has already been brought up...

One should respond exactly as the disciples did in this case:

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

KeptByTheWord · #**168** 02-20-2017, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I don't know where this scripture fits in what you are saying. John 7:38 is refering to the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, which is accopomanied by the evidence of tongues.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

He that believeth on me.... that is the focus you should see here in this scripture... This scripture clearly shows that out of the belly of one that believes, will flow rivers of living water.

KeptByTheWord · #**169** 02-20-2017, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

KBTW affirmed "he that believes and is baptized is saved." But it doesn't say that. Jesus said "he that believes and is baptized SHALL BE saved."

Sort of like "repent and be baptized... and you SHALL RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Or like, "as many as received Him, to them He gave power TO BECOME the sons of God..."

So, then according to your reasoning, is one not saved until hie meets Jesus at the White Throne Judgment?

Does salvation has a beginning and an ending?

If you are saying one is not saved until judgment day, how does that concept agree with the following scriptures?

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2 Corinthians 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

KeptByTheWord · #**170** 02-20-2017, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's cause and effect.

Salvation reminds me of this illustration. Jesus often chose parables to better illustrate the lesson He was trying to teach and I find that one can understand the lesson being taught if an illustration accompanies it.

Jesus bought and paid for the "house of salvation". A preacher of the gospel comes to us and tells us Jesus has bought a house of salvation, and all we need to do is come to Him and ask to live in it. By faith, we come to Jesus, and say we want to live in this "house of salvation" that He owns. We contract with him by believing and being baptized, with his blood being the signature on the contract, and He tells us that we now can come into the house of salvation, but in order to continue living in this house we must seek to be filled with His spirit, and continue to be His disciples in all we do, and as long as continue to do this, we can live in His house of salvation, until upon our death then we can enter the kingdom of heaven, after living faithfully in the house of salvation and fulfilling our part of the contract.

Or, it could be said this way: We enter into a contract through the blood of Jesus upon our faith/believing/repentance and baptism, and upon doing that, His spirit can take up residence in our lives, and upon continuing to be obedient until the end of the contract end (end of our lives) we then are able to finish the contract and enter into eternity and heaven with Jesus.

Salvation occurs at the beginning of the contract, but the completion of the contract does not take place until the end of our lives. It is a two-part thing... we can both be saved, and continue being saved.

Same idea as when you buy a house. You can say you "own" the house, and in one sense you do, but you have not fully paid for it, or completed the conditions necessary when you signed to purchase the home. Not until the home is completely paid for, and the title in your name, do you truly own it, even though in one sense you can say you own the house.

So I have tried in the best way I know how, to explain through an illustration how salvation means one can both be saved, and continue to be saved, all in the same breath.