Alienated Church: Father's and Mother's day - Page 17

Pressing-On · #**161** 06-21-2013, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

PO and CC1, I couldn't agree more with both of you!

I do not like the "armor bearers" fad either - someone assigned to the pastor/pastor's wife that jumps at their ever need.

And, one of my BIG pet peeves is 20 minutes into the service (praise and worship), the pastor and his "men" file in and sit on the platform. Such an elitists showing.

I've seen Mother's Day services turn into "crown" the Mother Queen (pastor's wife) ceremonies.

Do they deserve honor, yes. But, whole services devoted to them along with trips that not one saint in the church could ever afford to go on - no.

That's my little rant.

Haven't experienced the "armor bearer" thingy, but the filing in - yes - the Presbyter setting that example. It can come across as very intimidating. It turns me off because, I don't like to feel fear, it makes me angry when I feel fear. There should be no fear in love. The Bible says that fear has torment, which means fear involves punishment. And I would add that it exudes judgment. Another thing I have experienced. It is hard to be released from condemnation when you have fear all around you.

rgcraig · #**162** 06-21-2013, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Haven't experienced the "armor bearer" thingy, but the filing in - yes - the Presbyter setting that example. It can come across as very intimidating. It turns me off because, I don't like to feel fear, it makes me angry when I feel fear. There should be no fear in love. The Bible says that fear has torment, which means fear involves punishment. And I would add that it exudes judgment. Another thing I have experienced. It is hard to be released from condemnation when you have fear all around you.

Exactly - Romans 8:1 - Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

rgcraig · #**163** 06-21-2013, 08:11 AM

I think the armor bearer thingy is a big thing in the black Apostolic churches.

I attended a church in St. Louis to hear a friend sing and they not only treated her like that, but they did me and it made me VERY VERY uncomfortable.

Pressing-On · #**164** 06-21-2013, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Exactly - Romans 8:1 - Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Yes, and I believe that scripture really points to the source of our condemnation - ourselves - which we will heap on ourselves if we choose to walk in the flesh and not continue walking in the Spirit.

Condemnation may be something we content without ourselves, but should never come from any other quarter.

Pressing-On · #**165** 06-21-2013, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I think the armor bearer thingy is a big thing in the black Apostolic churches.

I attended a church in St. Louis to hear a friend sing and they not only treated her like that, but they did me and it made me VERY VERY uncomfortable.

I can see that being very uncomfortable. It has the feel of putting your importance on the level of God or as a god. I wouldn't like that either.

Esaias · #**166** 06-21-2013, 10:39 AM

What you seem to be describing sounds exactly like how the original apostolic churches began to slip into apostacy and wound up as the 'catholic church' of old... history repeating itself, perhaps...

Nitehawk013 · #**167** 06-21-2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

What you seem to be describing sounds exactly like how the original apostolic churches began to slip into apostacy and wound up as the 'catholic church' of old... history repeating itself, perhaps...

Ooooh...now that will preach!

Not in any pulpits I know of, but it would preach. We don't like anyone telling our leaders they may just be heading down a wrong direction. "Bless GAWD...how dare you question or think to know better than the Man O' GAWD"!

Pressing-On · #**168** 06-21-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

What you seem to be describing sounds exactly like how the original apostolic churches began to slip into apostacy and wound up as the 'catholic church' of old... history repeating itself, perhaps...

Have you read or posted a study on the different roles between the OT Priest v. NT pastor? We may have discussed that here already, but I don't recall it. I'm sure we have discussed the five or four-fold ministry.

The only thing I see from Ephesians 4 is that the responsibility is to "equip" the people for works of service. But, it seems like we are serving the pastor and his wife more than anything.

Esaias · #**169** 06-21-2013, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Have you read or posted a study on the different roles between the OT Priest v. NT pastor? We may have discussed that here already, but I don't recall it. I'm sure we have discussed the five or four-fold ministry.

The only thing I see from Ephesians 4 is that the responsibility is to "equip" the people for works of service. But, it seems like we are serving the pastor and his wife more than anything.

I think there have several discussions along these lines.

The NT pastor is in no way comparable to an OT priest. the priesthood has changed, replaced by the Melchizedek priesthood. Jesus is that priest. The priest made offerings for himself and for the people, Jesus offered himself for the people ONCE. The priest interceded for the people, Jesus intercedes on our behalf. Jesus is our priest, we have no other.

The pastor is a shepherd who 'feeds' the sheep. In other words, a pastor is a TEACHER who teaches God's word. Those who teach God's word to the people of God are deserving of honour. But not all who claim to be pastors are teaching the people God's word.

It was the pharisees who loved the chief seats in the synagogues, who 'sat in Moses' seat', etc. But, considering most of what is called 'church' these days is actually synagogue, it makes sense, I guess, for the 'pastor' to fancy himself a priest of sorts, gets the chief seat in the synagogue, etc etc.

The man of sin exalts himself in the place of God in the temple (church) of God. The man of God however simply teaches people to recognize Christ is on the throne and His (Christ's) Spirit is GOD IN THE TEMPLE.

Pressing-On · #**170** 06-21-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

I think there have several discussions along these lines.

The NT pastor is in no way comparable to an OT priest. the priesthood has changed, replaced by the Melchizedek priesthood. Jesus is that priest. The priest made offerings for himself and for the people, Jesus offered himself for the people ONCE. The priest interceded for the people, Jesus intercedes on our behalf. Jesus is our priest, we have no other.

The pastor is a shepherd who 'feeds' the sheep. In other words, a pastor is a TEACHER who teaches God's word. Those who teach God's word to the people of God are deserving of honour. But not all who claim to be pastors are teaching the people God's word.

It was the pharisees who loved the chief seats in the synagogues, who 'sat in Moses' seat', etc. But, considering most of what is called 'church' these days is actually synagogue, it makes sense, I guess, for the 'pastor' to fancy himself a priest of sorts, gets the chief seat in the synagogue, etc etc.

The man of sin exalts himself in the place of God in the temple (church) of God. The man of God however simply teaches people to recognize Christ is on the throne and His (Christ's) Spirit is GOD IN THE TEMPLE.

Of course I agree with you. I also believe many pastors believe that they have the role of Shepherd, and I do believe in honor and respecting those deserving of it.

It's just that I also believe, like in the conversation I shared - "Yes, call the Priest, call the Preacher", there is that underlying thought process of authority that lay with the Priesthood toward the people and is still being carried forward.