And you know Randy Wayne, what is so upsetting about this magic hair garbage is that the people have been taught to "obey" whatever their leadership says. If they say it, it must be true. No sound scripture to back up the claims, but don't you dare say it isn't so. The divide line between pastor and laity is pushed into our faces. "I am the preacher, you are the saint. You are not trained to know what the bible means in such cases." I've heard that line too many times.
We were trained to "respect" the pastor out of nothing but fear. He had an endless (seemingly) supply of stories of someone who either went against his pastors wishes or talked about him behind his back and had something horrible happen, including the holy ghost leaving him (the sinning saint) or even death or some other family tragedy. Now combine that with continually demanding respect because pastors are due a "double honor", and that pretty much formed my current day opinion of pastors.
Scotty, Prax, Amanah. I do want to say one more thing to you...
Your posts have given me some hope. One of my biggest questions is how truth could produce such rotten fruit...
Just hearing Amanah's gentle spirit which comes through loud and clear and hearing you describe your church Scotty has made me know that it doesn't have to. For that I appreciate that you took the time to share. Thank you.
I'm not discounting what you are saying at all. I've been through similar to what you are going through. There are many who have never seen what you are talking about and don't know how to relate to it. It has taken me years to sift through it and come to healing and closure, and to discover that there are many OP churches that are nothing like what we have experienced.
Take heart, God cares for you immeasurably. Stay close to God and trust him to lead and guide you and know that I'm praying with you.
__________________
All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. ~Tolkien
Jesus does not teach that anybody deserves more "respect" over another in the NT church, wouldn't you think?
Matthew 20:
25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Even if this teaching were to be followed to a "T" by ministers, then there would be the problem of the congregation running all over the ministers and mistreating them.
People just need to learn to respect Christ and His teachings and follow that.
LOVE this church also. Visit when I can with my sister. She lives in Beaumont and I live in Katy. We meet halfway at Grace. 1 service on Saturday night. 4 Services on Sunday, all at the Humble Location.
Grace Church Garden Oaks has a Sunday morning Service at 10 AM. On once a month Saturday "429" Service. It is quite AWESOME!
If you want to revisit a UPC church, I go to the Pentecostals of Katy. I am not in any ministry at the moment, but someday.....
Just as physical abuse perpetuates itself... so too does spiritual abuse. Pastors learn what they believe is appropriate from the elders they looked up to spiritually. Through this abuse is perpetuated. This can be seen in any church or denomination.
Just as physical abuse perpetuates itself... so too does spiritual abuse. Pastors learn what they believe is appropriate from the elders they looked up to spiritually. Through this abuse is perpetuated. This can be seen in any church or denomination.
...and you are not supposed to talk about it...it becomes preacher bashing then.
Scotty, Prax, Amanah. I do want to say one more thing to you...
Your posts have given me some hope. One of my biggest questions is how truth could produce such rotten fruit...
Just hearing Amanah's gentle spirit which comes through loud and clear and hearing you describe your church Scotty has made me know that it doesn't have to. For that I appreciate that you took the time to share. Thank you.
Truth does not produce rotten fruit. People do.
Psalm 15:2
He who walks uprightly, And works righteousness, And speaks the truth in his heart; Proverbs 3:3
Let not mercy and truth forsake you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart, 1 Peter 1:22
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, Psalm 119:11
Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You.
However, by their fruits you can determine if they truly hold the truth in their heart. Either way, its not a UPC thing, its a people thing.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
Scotty, while I agree that it is a people thing...people or pastor's who teach the UPC Apostolic Doctrine call it "truth". They become "representatives" of the denomination and it's teachings. How they represent this teaching is what is at issue here.
Many people around the country enjoy this same teaching that is done with love, honor and respect to the people in the congregation by the pastor.
Others around the country are not treated with respect by the pastor teaching the UPC Apostolic Doctrine. If you attend one or more UPC sponsored churches that teach "truth" and they are teaching and treating others disrespectfully, what is one to think?
This is a free country. So why do some UPC Pastors feel that they can be little dictators in the name of Jesus?
Apparently, the UPC leadership's right hand in Hazelwood MO has no idea what it's left hand in the rest of the country is doing concerning how some teach it's doctrine.
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