I was born with a mindset to sin at will. God made me that way, but I cannot sin freely and blame it on how God made me. I have a choice...to sin, or not to sin.
There are people who are born with a propensity to things like alcoholism, but they have a choice.....to drink, or not to drink.
You might have been born with an attraction to the same sex, but you have a choice.....to give in to that, or refrain from it.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Leviticus 18:22 KJV- Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Seems pretty plainly stated to me.
Lev 18:19-20 - "You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness."
Deut 21:18-21 - "18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."
Seems pretty plainly stated as well yet I don't think too many Christians would advocate the enforcement of these Scriptures.
Lev 18:19-20 - "You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness."
Deut 21:18-21 - "18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."
Seems pretty plainly stated as well yet I don't think too many Christians would advocate the enforcement of these Scriptures.
1. I addressed the first issue in post #151.
2. The second issue with a rebellious child was not identified as an abomination to God.
So then you agree that acts of homosexuality were wrong in the OT? What heterosexual act was an abomination in the OT that is now ok in the NT (outside of touching a woman on her period)?
Women on their periods were considered "unclean" and every month went through a purification process that included the priest offering up a sin offering and burnt offering to make atonement for them (See Lev 15:30).
However, Jesus Christ offered himself once and for all; so that there is no more need for sin offerings and burnt offerings. The CERIMONIAL law was fulfilled.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified (Hebrews 10:14; and surronding verses for more understanding).
Consequently, menustrating women are no longer "unclean." Therefore, there is no abomination in touching menustrating women today.
If homosexuality is an abomination (unclean) then wouldn't the concept of being sanctified eternally as stated in Hebrews 10:14 be applicable to homosexuals as well as menstruating women?
I'm still not able to subscribe to this concept of "ceremonial law" being fulfilled. It seems abundantly clear that ALL the Law has been fulfilled in Christ’s unconditional LOVE (Romans 7:6; 2:29; 8:1-10; Matthew 5:17,18; Galatians 3:18-25; 4:4,5; 5:14; John 15:13)
2. The second issue with a rebellious child was not identified as an abomination to God.
Whether it was identified as an abomination or not is not important. If one is going to suggest that we are still under the moral law of the OT then anything contained in that law should be followed. In other words, if one is going to advocate that homosexuality is an abomination because the OT law said it was then we must also advocate the OT law teachings on stoning of rebellious children. How can we reconcile only following part of the law in this dispensation of Grace? We can't.
I was born with a mindset to sin at will. God made me that way, but I cannot sin freely and blame it on how God made me. I have a choice...to sin, or not to sin.
There are people who are born with a propensity to things like alcoholism, but they have a choice.....to drink, or not to drink.
You might have been born with an attraction to the same sex, but you have a choice.....to give in to that, or refrain from it.
First of all, the OT only refers to homosexual sex. So, if we are still under that part of the OT Law, then sexual acts are all that need to be refrained from. Following your line of thought that the homosexual can be born with with an attraction to the same sex but can refrain from sexually acting on it, one would have to allow for two men who are in love with each other to live together, sleep in the same bed, kiss, hold hands, and basically spend the rest of their lives together as life-long companions as long as they do not have sex.
Also, God created all his creatures with a desire for companionship. That is why he initially created the animals. However, man did not find a help meat in the animals so God created a help meat out of man's own flesh and blood. It is a God-given desire to have life-time companionship. It is not a God-given desire to be an alcoholic. You are comparing apples and oranges when comparing alcoholism to homosexuality. Understand, homosexuality is nothing more and nothing less than human companionship. It is not even about sex as much as it is about intimacy and relationship.
Is it a lifestyle of sin and rejection of God that gets you to hell or do we believe God is very technical regarding sin (such as a lie or calling a brother/sister an idiot) and that it alone will get you a spot in hell? When the rapture takes place, do we think that the body of believers (the millions that are to be caught up in a twinkling of an eye) will all be in perfect unison and purity from any sin whatsoever in their life....or will there be a pause of 1 minute for everyone to throw in 6 Hail Marys in order to purge them of their sins...and will the ones that were sleeping at that moment get sent to the hot seat because they didn't make it in time to say their Hail Mary? Seriously, do you believe the body of believers will be in perfect purity? or do we really have a better hope in Christ knowing that his righteousness, not ours, is what makes us righteous?
Paul declares that it His righteousness, we all have seasons that we are more in tune to the Spirit in us, so it is illogical to think that we could all be in perfect purity in and of ourselves. But thank God it is the blood of Jesus that imputes God's righteousness to us. Do we just continue in sin, of course not, we submit ourselves to God and confess our sins, and as He works in us His righteousness brings us closer and closer to the image of Christ. We focus too much on what we do, and not enough on what Jesus has and continues to do on our behalf. Great questions you raise.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Whether it was identified as an abomination or not is not important. If one is going to suggest that we are still under the moral law of the OT then anything contained in that law should be followed. In other words, if one is going to advocate that homosexuality is an abomination because the OT law said it was then we must also advocate the OT law teachings on stoning of rebellious children. How can we reconcile only following part of the law in this dispensation of Grace? We can't.
brad- Why would God hate and detest something in the OT that would then be ok for the NT?
We don't stone people anymore because the NT ushered in the blood of Christ and redemption for men's sin.
Yes, thank God for the cross!!! Without it, we would all be toast!!!
It is unfortunate that in many "Apostolic" circles now and in years gone by, that the teaching has primarily been, "any unrepented for sin" will be an instant ticket to the soul roast. While that preaches great and gets many people to the altar week after week after week, I don't think it is true. There is NO WAY that everyone will completely free of sin at the moment of the rapture.
Now, we can debate 'til the cows come home at what point a person is over the "line" and is in danger of hell fire, but the only one to know that true answer is the Lord Himself. I will still try my best to call 'em like I see 'em from the scripture, but some things only preach well and don't hold up to logical or scriptural scrutiny.
You are right MOW, and that line of preaching has caused many to give up in frustration, because they felt hopeless in their efforts to be "spotless". When we talk about it being God's righteousness that we take on, then we are accused of being soft on sin. If we preach more about what Jesus has done and less about the terrible dangers of failing, more folks would believe and keep on repenting, getting up and keep walking in faith with the Lord.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Great questions you raise.
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