Is the Media Unfair to McCain?

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You'll have to take up the historic interpretation of the text prior to this political debate with Jews who speak the language and know the culture in which it was enforced. The odds of a child being miscarried by blunt trauma surviving in ancient Israel without any harm is very, very, very low. And the risk to the mother's health as a result was very, very, very high.

Babies don't just flop out in the ancient world after blunt trauma with no harm done.

You appear not to want to deal with the Scriptures I cited. That's fine. Nighty nite- I have a dreaded physical tomorrow at 0700!

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Wrong, the church has the authority to punish and issue condemnation and judgment for sin,

John 20:23
23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

II Corinthians 5:6
6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

The church has more authority than most realize. The church need not wimp out and deny the authority given her. Ideally, we should allow baptism to repentant believers. But in the case of abortion, the merciless killing of an unborn child, the church is within her right to deny baptism.

Really? So if God fills her with the Holy Ghost are you going to tell me we shouldn't baptize her?

Acts 10:

46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,

47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."

48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

[Aquila]

ReformedDave....

Did the Law demanding the stoning of an adulteress provide any provision for adulterous women who were pregnant to prevent their stoning until after they gave birth? Yes or no?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Really? So if God fills her with the Holy Ghost are you going to tell me we shouldn't baptize her?

Acts 10:

46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,



47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."



48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

God gave the church the authority to issue judgments on matters of sin. Peter obviously saw no issue with Cornelius' household being water baptized. Peter had the authority to retain sins if he felt it was necessary.

Do you mean to tell me abortion is such a light issue you'll sweep it under the rug for a potential tithe payer and blame Democrats for this woman's choice? Get real. She has to bare responsibility for her choice. If you wish to allow for water baptism so be it. But I would consider denying her water baptism, and if I felt like her repentance was sufficient enough to warrant baptism...I don't know if I'd want her to even sing in the choir.

Think about this for a minute. So many are saying that abortion is so terrible no real Christian can vote Democratic, even though Democrats don't force women to abort....but then the same folks act like it's no big deal if she's a potential tither.

The government is incapable of dealing with the issue due to it's complexity. The church has to enforce the life ethic...not just whine about it.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Rico

I am sure most people vote their conscience. Suggesting that someone who is pro-choice isn't a Christian doesn't sit well with me. We don't have a Biblical mandate to force our beliefs on anyone. The law here gives women the right to terminate a pregnancy, and it should be their choice to make. That doesn't make me pro-abortion and less of a Christian than any other Christians.

As for nationalized healthcare, my preference is that we reform the current system we have in place. A good place to start would be in standardizing the paperwork for all insurance companies. That alone would have an impact on the costs involved with healthcare in America.

Suggesting someone can believe it is ok to murder their unborn child and still call themselves a Chrisitian doesn't sit well with me either!

[Esther]

Originally Posted by 1399

I'm kind of young so I freely admit that I don't know every thing.

But, it appears to me that the Republican political masterminds are trying to use the Christian faith to establish a bloc of voters that will vote for them, no matter what, in every circumstance-- similar to what the Democrats have been able to do with the Black vote in this country.

This sickening to me, from both angles. However, I am much more offended at Republican party efforts of politicizing my faith.

I am voting for the Democrat, Obama.



As for all the media hype-- if Obama was making mistakes and tripping over himself, the discussion would be more along the lines of, "See there, this the real Barak Obama...." Or we would be hearing, "In the area of int'l diplomacy, he is so inexperienced and to here is the proof..." The discussions would be critical, to say it mildly.

But he isn't tripping up badly. He is proving to be a skillful communicator abroad. He is being received in a positive light overseas, and many Americans are upset with that.

Perhaps you didn't hear him when he didn't have a teleprompter? All the umms, and etc! NOT a good communicator!

They are upset that they aren't seeing him fail miserably.

So now, many folks are crying, "It's unfair-- McCain is not getting the same coverage as Obama."

Well one of the criticisms about Obama was that Americans did not know enough about him and that he is untested in the international diplomacy dept. If we'd stop crying, maybe we can learn a bit more about him and decide to vote or not vote for the man without sticking to some tired old line about homosexuals and abortion.

He is untested! Not to mention he doesn't have the ability to VOTE as a senator other than "Present"! That is NOT the kind of person I want as President of my country!

Neither one of those issues are going away and at the end of the day, those who make a practice of such things make their decisions personally and will be held responsible for their decisions, personally.

I have not seen ONE thing to even consider voting for Obama. He wants Change, WHAT change. Just saying change ain't enough for me. He might want to change your right to own guns, so the government can take your land, and etc. He might want to take your jobs, so you become dependant on the government. What changes does he want?

Is America perfect? NO! Is any party perfect? NO! But to say I am voting for him because he is young, or 1/2 black is stupid IMO!

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Aquila

ReformedDave

If it is the government's responsibility to protect the unborn by seizing a pregnant woman's body and forcing her to give birth...shouldn't it provide health insurance to cover the unborn child and mother, and extend said coverage to protect them after the birth of the child? What makes you care so much for the child's life before birth...but then render it expendable to preserve the free market social darwinism in health care that you preach after it's born?

A consistent life ethic will seek to protect and preserve life and health as policy from womb to tomb. Also consider, a national health care system brings the will of the tax payer into the issue like never before....abortion can be something heavily regulated by the system as in Ireland's universal health care system if we take health care from being strictly a private industry.

If you want national health care you should go ahead and move to a communist country where you will be happy.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by 1399

I'm kind of young so I freely admit that I don't know every thing.

But, it appears to me that the Republican political masterminds are trying to use the Christian faith to establish a bloc of voters that will vote for them, no matter what, in every circumstance-- similar to what the Democrats have been able to do with the Black vote in this country.

This sickening to me, from both angles. However, I am much more offended at Republican party efforts of politicizing my faith.

I am voting for the Democrat, Obama.



As for all the media hype-- if Obama was making mistakes and tripping over himself, the discussion would be more along the lines of, "See there, this the real Barak Obama...." Or we would be hearing, "In the area of int'l diplomacy, he is so inexperienced and to here is the proof..." The discussions would be critical, to say it mildly.

But he isn't tripping up badly. He is proving to be a skillful communicator abroad. He is being received in a positive light overseas, and many Americans are upset with that.

They are upset that they aren't seeing him fail miserably.

So now, many folks are crying, "It's unfair-- McCain is not getting the same coverage as Obama."

Well one of the criticisms about Obama was that Americans did not know enough about him and that he is untested in the international diplomacy dept. If we'd stop crying, maybe we can learn a bit more about him and decide to vote or not vote for the man without sticking to some tired old line about homosexuals and abortion.

Neither one of those issues are going away and at the end of the day, those who make a practice of such things make their decisions personally and will be held responsible for their decisions, personally.

a few points of clarification....


the religious groups that have become part of the Republican party have pushed the party, the party didn't co-opt religion. Anti-Abortion groups found a home and pushed for their own agenda. the republicans didn't make some decision to "go after" them. Additionally when the democrats supported abortion, supported the gay agenda, stood up for insanely profane "art" and a whole host of other things that are simply offensive to vast numbers of Christians, the Democrat party sealed its own fate as being a party devoid of religious voters.

and your points on Barak? Dude, YOU and I have discussed his gaff of saying he would invade Pakistan. You and others decided to explain that away. When he clearly used precedent that lead to MAJOR international diplomatic failure as a reason to repeat the same mistake, it has been discussed and those supportive of him decided to explain that away.

it seems right now, even Katy Couric (a noted liberal) has been on Barak for a most recent gaff while in Iraq.

I appreciate you. You have every right to vote for whom you will. just wanted to clear up a few points here.

Oh and blacks went to the dems because the republican party accepted white racist democrats into their ranks in the 1960's.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe abortion is a sin.

I believe that the rabbinical authorities uniformly agree that the loss of an unborn child is to be punished by heavy fines as the father and the judges determine. However, the passage in question is focused upon the well being of the mother...not the unborn child. (We have to reject the dehumanization of women).

I would go as far as to say that one would be within their rights to forbid water baptism to a woman who procured an unnecessary abortion.

I truly hope you don't really endorse this! Remember you are judged by the same standard you use to judge. Is your life so perfect you have never sinned?

Politically speaking, I think the government is incapable of adequately addressing the issue because of it's complexity. Responsibility for choosing life or abortion is best left in the hands of individual women....not politicians.

Why don't you think GOD is capable of making the decisions?

Originally Posted by Aquila

God gave the church the authority to issue judgments on matters of sin. Peter obviously saw no issue with Cornelius' household being water baptized. Peter had the authority to retain sins if he felt it was necessary.

Do you mean to tell me abortion is such a light issue you'll sweep it under the rug for a potential tithe payer and blame Democrats for this woman's choice? Get real. She has to bare responsibility for her choice. If you wish to allow for water baptism so be it. But I would consider denying her water baptism, and if I felt like her repentance was sufficient enough to warrant baptism...I don't know if I'd want her to even sing in the choir.

Think about this for a minute. So many are saying that abortion is so terrible no real Christian can vote Democratic, even though Democrats don't force women to abort....but then the same folks act like it's no big deal if she's a potential tither.

The government is incapable of dealing with the issue due to it's complexity. The church has to enforce the life ethic...not just whine about it.

You honestly think the issue is over tithe payers? How inmature is that? You don't think her soul is more important?

[Ferd]

You know, I guess it is only right that someone would be here adovcating for abortion. Everyting else under the sun has someone saying it aint wrong so why not abortion too?

good grief.