In one war, the blood of over 600k men was spilled to end the atrocities. That's not including the exponential numbers of those who also spilled their blood since that war.
You'd think that would be payment enough. I'm failing to see how my apology for something I personally know nothing about will do more than the blood shed by my ancestors who were there and saw it firsthand.
A physical written apology in letter format from you personally to every black person, or native american or whoever probably would not do much to placate anyone you do not know. More would be accomplished through our dealings we have with the folks we interact with on a day to day basis. A letter, even then may not be worth too much, but there are other things we can do.
The apology thing is a U.S and/or State government issue, IMO.
Most of the damage people are trying to deal with today, I am convinced, happened after slavery, well into the 1970's and maybe even the 1980's.
But your willingness to discuss this issue with an open heart shows your kindness-- and that's worth more than any "letter".
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Ferd, I love talking to you. I wish I had your knowledge.
But I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't saying that it wasn't about race, but I wonder when it became a racial issue. It could have been that way from the beginning, but since slavery existed with even white folks being slaves for hundreds and even thousands of years prior to the blacks being slaves in this country, I wonder if it started out being a racial issue.
Also, as you probably know, it was black merchants that sold many of those black slaves to their new owners. I'm sure we cannot claim that those blacks had a racial issue in doing that.
Regardless, there is no doubt that at some point it became a racial issue. Sadly, this card is still played today in places where it no longer exists.
I've been pulled over by black cops before. I've received tickets from black cops before. But never once has it crossed my mind that it was because I'm white that they did those actions. Yet I know white people in authority who are afraid to do much with black people under them because their actions are brought into question by the race card being played.
I will read further, but I need to stop at me not understanding your point.
H1, I appreciate you. You know we agree on many points. On this one, it is all together that I do misunderstand your point, but that isnt based on not reading what you have written.
It is based on what you are saying, how you are saying it.
My basic premis is that we (on the white side of this issue) spend more time explaining how far we have come, or how it isnt our fault that things are as they are, or down playing the white roll in slavery (only 5% actually held slaves you know) or how we as individuals dont use the "N" word....etc
and not nearly enough energy/time acknowleging reality. Accepting the fact that race remains a major issue in Amercia, speaking about what we are activly doing about it.
Heavenly One, I get where you are coming from. But the ones that you would have hear you, will not because their experience tells them not to fight thru your defending of yourself.
my arguement is, we need to be a bit more vulnerable and honest. we dont do near enough of that.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
A physical written apology in letter format from you personally to every black person, or native american or whoever probably would not do much to placate anyone you do not know. More would be accomplished through our dealings we have with the folks we interact with on a day to day basis. A letter, even then may not be worth too much, but there are other things we can do.
The apology thing is a U.S and/or State government issue, IMO.
Most of the damage people are trying to deal with today, I am convinced, happened after slavery, well into the 1970's and maybe even the 1980's.
But your willingness to discuss this issue with an open heart shows your kindness-- and that's worth more than any "letter".
My friend, I'm a friend to all, regardless of race or color. I love the diversity in us all, and even enjoy discussion our differences.
I don't know what it's like to be black. I don't know what it's like to be hispanic. I don't know what it's like to be Catholic.
But I have friends who are. I have other friends who aren't any of those.
To learn, I have to discuss issues that may seem taboo to many. I am comfortable speaking to those who are also comfortable. I'm also comfortable in joking about our differences to those who are also comfortable.
For instance, I had three friends growing up who were special to me.
Tracy and Cina were black sisters. Carol was my white friend.
We would take pictures with Carol and I in the middle, and Tracy and Cina on the ends. We referred to ourselves as 'double-stuffed', referencing the Oreo cookie by that name....LOL!
Thanks for your honesty in discussing this issue that can so easily offend and cause hurt.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I stand corrected. King Solomon himself was not black, but the "object of his love" in the Song of Solomon was indeed black.
Jesus was a Mulatto, a mixed breed, and just one generation ago, would have been considered an abomination by many good-hearted but ignorant Christian folk.
To add, there are quite a few "Christians" opposed to mixed race marriages-- whatever the reasoning, it is still a glaring example of racially biased ignorance.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 03-19-2008 at 01:43 PM.
Reason: to add
I stand corrected. King Solomon himself was not black, but the "object of his love" in the Song of Solomon was indeed black.
Jesus was a Mulatto, a mixed breed, and just one generation ago, would have been considered an abomination by many good-hearted but ignorant Christian folk.
What were his mixed origins?
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
True....actually everyone on the planet has done the black people wrong, including and especially blacks...While Whites in SA kept them down we had genocide with blacks on blacks in other places....and nobody from the UN did a thing.
Here in America there are a lot of successful blacks and the excuse that the white man is keeping them down is less of a credible excuse though racism STILL is alive and well. It is just not as systematic as it once was.
Racism from whites isn't all there is. Blacks, hispanics, and Indians are also racist in certain areas.
Racism isn't a color problem. It's a human one. It even existed in Biblical days. One can even say that for a time, God was racist in making the Jews His chosen people.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Ferd, I love talking to you. I wish I had your knowledge.
But I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't saying that it wasn't about race, but I wonder when it became a racial issue. It could have been that way from the beginning, but since slavery existed with even white folks being slaves for hundreds and even thousands of years prior to the blacks being slaves in this country, I wonder if it started out being a racial issue.
Also, as you probably know, it was black merchants that sold many of those black slaves to their new owners. I'm sure we cannot claim that those blacks had a racial issue in doing that.
Regardless, there is no doubt that at some point it became a racial issue. Sadly, this card is still played today in places where it no longer exists.
I've been pulled over by black cops before. I've received tickets from black cops before. But never once has it crossed my mind that it was because I'm white that they did those actions. Yet I know white people in authority who are afraid to do much with black people under them because their actions are brought into question by the race card being played.
dealing now with the spicifics. You are right, at first in Europe slavery was a white on white event. eventually peasantry replaced slavery by and large.
at some point, slavery began to go to Africa to get slaves. in the New World, there was a lot more need for manual labor than there was a pool of people to pull from. You had indentured servants from Eruope that came here, but you also had a very cheep resource coming from Africa.
Yes black merchants in Africa were capturing other Blacks to sell as slaves, as they had for a thousand years. but thru this process in America (which is what we are talking about), long before America was a nation, slavery became by and large a race related issue.
Before the foundation of the States, there were free Black people, and in many instances blacks and whites married with little reaction from the communities.
As time progressed, and as sentements against slavery began to gell, it was in the interest of slave owners to foment attitudes about blacks that would keep the majority of poor whites from identifying with black slaves.
it became such a race issue BEFORE the civil war that even Abraham Lincoln stated quite matter of factly that Blacks did not have the intelectual capability of Whites.
After the Civil War, Reconstruction became a punishment to those who fought for the South. That fostered further racial hatred toward the freed slaves.
once Reconstruction ended, the south was devistated, and there was no law to prevent whites from ecalating violence against blacks.
Black people were forced into enclaves and while "free" they were non the less, seperated from the white population. This was all about race and it was the law of the land (see Plessy vs. Ferguson). It was ALL about race.
Jump forward to today. Plessy is dead, we have laws on the books that make it criminal to discriminate, but we are still having this conversation.
Racism/prejudice is not dead. dying maybe. certainly not what it was during the days of Selma, but we have not come to the place of our land being healed.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I will read further, but I need to stop at me not understanding your point.
H1, I appreciate you. You know we agree on many points. On this one, it is all together that I do misunderstand your point, but that isnt based on not reading what you have written.
It is based on what you are saying, how you are saying it.
My basic premis is that we (on the white side of this issue) spend more time explaining how far we have come, or how it isnt our fault that things are as they are, or down playing the white roll in slavery (only 5% actually held slaves you know) or how we as individuals dont use the "N" word....etc
and not nearly enough energy/time acknowleging reality. Accepting the fact that race remains a major issue in Amercia, speaking about what we are activly doing about it.
Heavenly One, I get where you are coming from. But the ones that you would have hear you, will not because their experience tells them not to fight thru your defending of yourself.
my arguement is, we need to be a bit more vulnerable and honest. we dont do near enough of that.
I hear ya, and I agree.
I have friends who use the N word. They know I don't like it and I tell them every time I hear it.
When I was about 16, I got in the bad habit of calling my brother the N word. I can honestly say it wasn't a racial thing, just a bad name to call him. I also called him that in a joking manner.
My lesson came the night I had a black co-worker over to my house. She was in her mid 30's, but we worked together and she was visiting my mother and I.
My brother and I were playing cards. He won. I called him a N. Horror then filled my mind as I realized what I'd said that came only as habit.
I looked at my friend and she was laughing. I wasn't. She later explained that the look on my face is what cracked her up. I stumbled trying to explain to her why I'd used that word. She said she wasn't offended, but offended or not, I can tell you that I never used that word again. It's a lesson I'll never forget.
It really bothers me to hear anyone, black or white, but especially Apostolics, using that word. We won't advance past the racial divide until we stop making it wider.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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