1> Did the Tulsa 6 have a right to start WPF ?

[Sunni]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The only real documented problems involved the scheduling of conferences in the South. The old Jim Crow laws prohibited black ministers from staying at "whites only" hotels.

There were no doubt other issues on the minds of different individuals, but the real pressure to seperate along color lines really came from outside of the Pentecostal movement. When they did seperate, it was generally seen as a victory for "outside" forces and was a disappointment to those within the movement.

Most of the "anti-inter-racial marriage" sentiments came along later; about the same time that other new ideas were being introduced.

I have to agree with Pelathais here. I studied the racial issues in depth in Bible College for a research paper (where we had access to a lot of historical material not readily available to many) at IBC- even spoke with some in Elder GT Haywood's church. Jim Crow lines made national meetings very difficult, along with various other problems relative to race issues in the nation.

[lilanastasia]

Hey, a little off the subject, but who on here had the quote about an ignorant or stupid man that couldn't rise to understanding because all of his understanding was subject to his thinking...or something like that. I love that quote and forgot to write it down and now I can't find who's it was...a little help..

At the outset of this writing, I find it somewhat important to say that a church organization, be it UPCI, ALJC, WPF, COOLJC, PAW, etc., has, AND NEVER WILL save anyone! It is faith in Jesus Christ and obedience to the Gospel that saves us (see Ephesians 2:8-9)! I happen to be an individual that was pastored by Brother Wilson at one time -- but also an individual that is very fond of Brother & Sister Haney! Can you just imagine? Oh my! And they're all related, too! Sister Haney is Sister Wilson's blood sister (and also Sister McGruder)! Brother Wilson originally comes from the church and Bible college (known at that time as Western Apostolic Bible College) that Brother Haney pastored (now CLC). I love the United Pentecostal Church International. One of the things I have loved the most was its stance on personal holiness.

Unfortunately, I've been finding that the UPCI is starting to NOT feel like "home" and maybe it IS time to move on to the WPF. I have always fought for this Apostolic Pentecostal faith and its godly lifestyle from a family and friends that didn't understand -- but I'm tired of contending for it by others that are supposedly Apostolic and lovers of holiness.

So -- If you want to go around with a diluted Gospel message, whore around with the world, and look worse than hustlers and street-walkers, feel free. Go ahead. The children of God are moving over to the WPF.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by onegod1

At the outset of this writing, I find it somewhat important to say that a church organization, be it UPCI, ALJC, WPF, COOLJC, PAW, etc., has, AND NEVER WILL save anyone! It is faith in Jesus Christ and obedience to the Gospel that saves us (see Ephesians 2:8-9)! I happen to be an individual that was pastored by Brother Wilson at one time -- but also an individual that is very fond of Brother & Sister Haney! Can you just imagine? Oh my! And they're all related, too! Sister Haney is Sister Wilson's blood sister (and also Sister McGruder)! Brother Wilson originally comes from the church and Bible college (known at that time as Western Apostolic Bible College) that Brother Haney pastored (now CLC). I love the United Pentecostal Church International. One of the things I have loved the most was its stance on personal holiness.

Unfortunately, I've been finding that the UPCI is starting to NOT feel like "home" and maybe it IS time to move on to the WPF. I have always fought for this Apostolic Pentecostal faith and its godly lifestyle from a family and friends that didn't understand -- but I'm tired of contending for it by others that are supposedly Apostolic and lovers of holiness.

So -- If you want to go around with a diluted Gospel message, whore around with the world, and look worse than hustlers and street-walkers, feel free. Go ahead. The children of God are moving over to the WPF.

so where are you going?

Ok, is anybody else sick & tired of the silly backbiting happening in our Apostolic/pentecostal churches? I'm sure the people who say all this trash about good men of God (UPC, WPF...whatever!) on these forums wouldn't say it in person to them. This is such a horrible spirit floating around our churches trying to stir up division.

Must we always criticize someone else if they do something we don't agree with? The men who decided to pull out of the UPC had every right, just like those who don't agree with them have every right to continue with what they think is the right path for them. Let's quit stirring up controversy & drama...the devil is sitting back laughing because the more we tear each other down, the less he has to do to destroy us! The time spent talking about each other is time wasted when we could have been reaching the lost or praying for our families.

STOP THE GOSSIP! GOD IS NOT PLEASED WITH IT!!!

This is a HUGE reason why backsliders don't want to come back to church! I know because my whole family is backslidden & i hear them say things like that all the time! You know they're going to be a BIG part of the end-time revival...the prodigals coming home.

On the diversity thing-it depends on where you live most of the time. If you're in a large city like i am, it's easy to have more than one race or ethnic group. But the rural, little town churches are going to have majority white congregations... that's just how it is. It has nothing to do with the churches "racial mindset". Fortunately we have a very diversified church. I hope i didn't come across as rude, but i hate to see our brothers & sisters tearing each other apart...it's sad & frustrating!

Originally Posted by Felicity

I got a revelation tonight! Yeah, I really did.

I got a revelation that people need to leave this WPF situation alone and go about their own business. What's been done is done and nothing can be undone now. People will continue to do what they want to do and you get to do what you want to do.

Castigating and rock throwing, judging and criticizing won't change a thing. God is the Righteous Judge. His judgments are perfect because His knowledge and understanding is perfect. Our is imperfect, biased and jaundiced by politics, mindsets, inaccurate perceptions, and bias.

Divisions have always and will continue to take place within the body of Christ. And again, it depends on our own ideas of what is right and wrong on whether or not the division is good or bad.

Those of us all involved in ministry need to just go about the business of doing what God's will is for us personally and specifically and avoid getting caught up in whatever issue is going at any particular time.

James 4 (NIV)

1 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you?

2 You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God.

3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you–who are you to judge your neighbor?

Thank you! Finally another believer who thinks it's wrong to talk about one another...yay! GBU

[tv1a]

Which comment should I address first?

The Children of God are moving to the WPF? The diluting of the message? The lack of holiness?

Your cheap shots are not only unfounded, but they have been proved inaccurate time and time again. You claim you love personal holiness. I haven't read one post where personal holiness was the issue. What I have read is sensible people want to put a stop to spiritual nazis confusing personal holiness for a subjective salvational standard.

WPF was established on lies and egos. Not somethine I would be proud associating with. There are more inconsistencies from the wpf than at a barak obama press conference. If you want to participate in the occultic practice of legalism you should feel at home in the wpf.

Originally Posted by onegod1

At the outset of this writing, I find it somewhat important to say that a church organization, be it UPCI, ALJC, WPF, COOLJC, PAW, etc., has, AND NEVER WILL save anyone! It is faith in Jesus Christ and obedience to the Gospel that saves us (see Ephesians 2:8-9)! I happen to be an individual that was pastored by Brother Wilson at one time -- but also an individual that is very fond of Brother & Sister Haney! Can you just imagine? Oh my! And they're all related, too! Sister Haney is Sister Wilson's blood sister (and also Sister McGruder)! Brother Wilson originally comes from the church and Bible college (known at that time as Western Apostolic Bible College) that Brother Haney pastored (now CLC). I love the United Pentecostal Church International. One of the things I have loved the most was its stance on personal holiness.

Unfortunately, I've been finding that the UPCI is starting to NOT feel like "home" and maybe it IS time to move on to the WPF. I have always fought for this Apostolic Pentecostal faith and its godly lifestyle from a family and friends that didn't understand -- but I'm tired of contending for it by others that are supposedly Apostolic and lovers of holiness.

So -- If you want to go around with a diluted Gospel message, whore around with the world, and look worse than hustlers and street-walkers, feel free. Go ahead. The children of God are moving over to the WPF.

[TCSQ]

Originally Posted by tv1a

WPF was established on lies and egos. Not somethine I would be proud associating with. There are more inconsistencies from the wpf than at a barak obama press conference. If you want to participate in the occultic practice of legalism you should feel at home in the wpf.

Sounds like you've got it bad! GET OVER IT!

[Consapostolic1]

tv1a, why is that in most of the posts Ive read of yours, you always find some way to demean or degrade those that take a more conservative stand than you?

[Consapostolic1]

tv1a, maybe you have issues within yourself regarding conservatives that you need to take to God