Trinity: False Doctrine of Blind Leaders.

[Coffee99]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Hey Mr. Coffee99 ...

I like your signature.

Thank you, Felicity.

God IS good! He has been very good to me.

My prayer every day is that my life is lived to be a witness of Him. Nothing else really matters, does it? I don't care what denomination label is on me, I only care that, with God's help, others can see Christ is a constant presence in what I do and how I act. Perhaps others will seek God if I can try to show how merciful and loving He has been to me, because I certainly didn't lead a life prior that would be ANYTHING of which God would be proud. If He can do what He's done in my life, it is proof He can reach anybody!

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Coffee99

There is much talk of various creeds. Perhaps it would help to see, in English, the original creed. Knock yourselves out, but at maybe this will provide a common starting point for debate.

Please Note: In refering to the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic church" this does not refer to the RCC! The creed, also known as the Confession of Faith, was determined prior to the RCC pulling away from what is now known as the Eastern Orthodox Church, in 1054, in large part over Rome changing the Creed! This Creed was done in 325 by the 1st Ecumenical Council of Nicaea and this is NOT the creed used by the RCC.

Please also note that the commonly accepted meaning of "catholic" by the RCC is 'universal'. However, the Eastern Orthodox has always accepted the meaning of "catholic" to mean 'wholeness' or 'fullness'.



The Creed

I believe in one God, Father Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things
visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotton Son of God,
begotton of the Father before all ages;
Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten
not created, of one essence with the Father,
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and the dead; His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of Life,
Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the
Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified,
Who spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the age to come. Amen.

I see no conflict with scripture in the wording of this creed. This is 325 AD, there is no mention of eternal damnation, this along with other evidences from history make is unlikely that the early church embraced it.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Coffee99

Thank you, Felicity.

God IS good! He has been very good to me.

My prayer every day is that my life is lived to be a witness of Him. Nothing else really matters, does it? I don't care what denomination label is on me, I only care that, with God's help, others can see Christ is a constant presence in what I do and how I act. Perhaps others will seek God if I can try to show how merciful and loving He has been to me, because I certainly didn't lead a life prior that would be ANYTHING of which God would be proud. If He can do what He's done in my life, it is proof He can reach anybody!

Amen!!

Originally Posted by Old Paths

The terms "Trinity" and "persons" as related to the Godhead, while not found in the Scriptures, are words in harmony with Scripture, whereby we may convey to others our immediate understanding of the doctrine of Christ respecting the Being of God, as distinguished from "gods many and lords many." We therefore may speak with propriety of the Lord our God who is One Lord, as a trinity or as one Being of three persons, and still be absolutely scriptural.


Distinction and Relationship in the Godhead
Christ taught a distinction of Persons in the Godhead which He expressed in specific terms of relationship, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but that this distinction and relationship, as to its mode is inscrutable and incomprehensible, because unexplained.


Unity of the One Being of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Accordingly, therefore, there is that in the Father which constitutes him the Father and not the Son; there is that in the Son which constitutes Him the Son and not the Father; and there is that in the Holy Spirit which constitutes Him the Holy Spirit and not either the Father or the Son. Wherefore the Father is the Begetter, the Son is the Begotten, and the Holy Spirit is the one proceeding from the Father and the Son. Therefore, because these three persons in the Godhead are in a state of unity, there is but one Lord God Almighty and His name one.

Identity and Cooperation in the Godhead
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are never identical as to Person; nor confused as to relation; nor divided in respect to the Godhead; nor opposed as to cooperation. The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son as to relationship. The Son is with the Father and the Father is with the Son, as to fellowship. The Father is not from the Son, but the Son is from the Father, as to authority. The Holy Spirit is from the Father and the Son proceeding, as to nature, relationship, cooperation and authority. Hence, neither Person in the Godhead either exists or works separately or independently of the others.


The only thing right in these false statements concerning the Godhead is "while not found in the Scriptures".

The trinity doctrine is propagated by roman catholicism, taught by popes, priest and the illegitimate daughters of rome.

Mark 12:29

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:KJV

I'm amazed, are you falsely claiming that Trinitarians don't believe in one God.

Originally Posted by Coffee99

There is much talk of various creeds. Perhaps it would help to see, in English, the original creed. Knock yourselves out, but at maybe this will provide a common starting point for debate.

Please Note: In refering to the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic church" this does not refer to the RCC! The creed, also known as the Confession of Faith, was determined prior to the RCC pulling away from what is now known as the Eastern Orthodox Church, in 1054, in large part over Rome changing the Creed! This Creed was done in 325 by the 1st Ecumenical Council of Nicaea and this is NOT the creed used by the RCC.

Please also note that the commonly accepted meaning of "catholic" by the RCC is 'universal'. However, the Eastern Orthodox has always accepted the meaning of "catholic" to mean 'wholeness' or 'fullness'.



The Creed

I believe in one God, Father Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth, and of all things
visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotton Son of God,
begotton of the Father before all ages;
Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten
not created, of one essence with the Father,
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and the dead; His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of Life,
Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the
Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified,
Who spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the age to come. Amen.

This is, in fact, the Creed to which I adhere. I also adhere to the Confession given at the Synod of Mar Aqaq in 486 A.D. (though I would replace "copies of their natures" with simply "their natures"):

But our faith in the dispensation of Christ should also be in a confession of two natures of Godhead and manhood, none of us venturing to introduce mixture, commingling, or confusion into the distinctions of those two natures. Instead, while Godhead remains and is preserved in that which belongs to it, and manhood in that which belongs to it, we combine the copies of their natures in one Lordship and one worship because of the perfect and inseparable conjunction which the Godhead had with the manhood. If anyone thinks or teaches others that suffering and change adhere to the Godhead of our Lord, not preserving - in regard to the union of the parsopa* of our Savior - the confession of perfect God and perfect man, the same shall be anathema.

To put this latter Confession into simpler terms, those things that pertain the Jesus' divinity do not pertain to His humanity and those things pertaining to His humanity do not pertain to His divinity. Yet, there remains the hypostatic union of Jesus' divinity and His humanity.


*Aramaic for the Greek word prosopon.

Originally Posted by crakjak

I see no conflict with scripture in the wording of this creed. This is 325 AD, there is no mention of eternal damnation, this along with other evidences from history make is unlikely that the early church embraced it.

This version of the Creed is actually the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 A.D. The Creed of 325 A.D. ended after "We believe in the Holy Spirit" or "Holy Ghost." Here is the original Nicene Creed of 325 A.D.:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten of his Father, of the substance of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father. By whom all things were made, both which be in heaven and in earth. Who for us men and for our salvation came down [from heaven] and was incarnate and was made man. He suffered and the third day he rose again, and ascended into heaven. And he shall come again to judge both the quick and the dead. And [we believe] in the Holy Ghost.

[jcan071]

I appreciate you excepting me for membership, it seems this is a very nice oplace to be, thanks...

jcan

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I see no conflict with scripture in the wording of this creed. This is 325 AD, there is no mention of eternal damnation, this along with other evidences from history make is unlikely that the early church embraced it.

The purpose of this creed was to counter Arianism....not to teach on eternal damnation

At the same time one notes there is no teaching here about Universal Salvation either

[Steve Epley]

Bump.

[RonMurray]

Before I started posting messages online and talking to people online about salvation, the Godhead, and other biblical things, I always thought most Trinitarians were sincere and just needed someone who could show them the scriptutes about salvation and the deity of Jesus, and help them understand. But after talking with them online and getting to know them more, I was shocked to find their true nature. Many Trinitarians won't make it, not just because they don't know the truth or just simply don't believe it, but because many of them are hardened against the truth and are set against it, and refuse to believe it and accept it no matter what. The spirit of Trinitarianism is an antichrist spirit, and it causes them to reject the deity of Jesus, it causes them to attack the name of Jesus because of it being used in baptism by us, and it causes them to blaspheme the Holy Spirit by attributing the work and manifestation of the Spirit through us to the devil.

This is why many Trinitarians will not make it. It might seem like it can be as simple and innocent as just believing in God even if you don't know the truth, but if you are not sincere in heart and sincerely want to know the the truth, then there are things at work in the spiritual realm that will casuse you to become cursed and damned.