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01-10-2008, 06:51 PM
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Forget-it
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Im so glad to see you say that....but when it comes to homosexuality....I don't think we as an org are ready to do that
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Define restore.
Hypothetically, let's play the advocate for a moment. Suppose he has repented and made restitution, I would be the first to say it would be a shame to let his talent go to waste. He would not need a license to have his gifts be used. I would think restoration would be an easy process, though not all would believe, and many would never have him for a service. None the less, if real sorrow were displayed, not tears of I am sorry I got caught, some would no doubt do their best to see him restored.
Back to reality:
As public a figure as he was (good grief, I came from an ultra-con church where you went to hell for accidently letting your eyes stray towards a tv at a friend's home), when I found out he was going to be on the Grammy's to accept an award...was it More Than Wonderful?....I made sure to watch it. Imagine my shock, as my pastor taught against tuxedos! 
He indeed was a public figure. Indeed any attempt at restoration of any kind would of necessity have to include a public statement of some kind.
__________________
Dr. Flemming
L.L.B.B.A.
Certified L.O.O.N.
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01-10-2008, 07:06 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
You tell us...has he repented? Who cares if "UPC" pastors use him? And if he has repented and UPC Pastors still refuse to use him...what does that mean?
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Read the posts. Questions have already been answered.
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01-10-2008, 07:09 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
For some reason they would like a public apology. Is that demanded of in the scriptures?
Was Paul wrong for writing to the Galatians about Peter's sin of respect of persons? And did Paul say Peter gave a public apology?
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Where did Paul say Peter had to give a public apology to everyone? I mean what constitutes a public apology? Did Paul cut peter off from the body before he could apologize? Would Peter's apology matter? probably but I don't think LWs apology or admission would mean squat to a lot of people in the UPC. When it comes to homosexuality that seems to be the unpardonable sin. Did Peter send a letter to every church announcing what a scum bag he was (admission) and then say he was sorry for his sins?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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01-10-2008, 07:10 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev
Read the posts. Questions have already been answered.
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I saw accusations...that was all I saw.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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01-10-2008, 07:12 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
I saw accusations...that was all I saw.
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Then you didn't read the posts!
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01-10-2008, 07:19 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retsambeW
Define restore.
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Restore: Repair
Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
Quote:
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Hypothetically, let's play the advocate for a moment. Suppose he has repented and made restitution, I would be the first to say it would be a shame to let his talent go to waste. He would not need a license to have his gifts be used. I would think restoration would be an easy process, though not all would believe, and many would never have him for a service. None the less, if real sorrow were displayed, not tears of I am sorry I got caught, some would no doubt do their best to see him restored.
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I don't think so....not in the UPC sorry to say. I have seen it on a local level...anyone that is a homosexual is suspect even after coming to the Lord....
Quote:
Back to reality:
As public a figure as he was (good grief, I came from an ultra-con church where you went to hell for accidently letting your eyes stray towards a tv at a friend's home), when I found out he was going to be on the Grammy's to accept an award...was it More Than Wonderful?....I made sure to watch it. Imagine my shock, as my pastor taught against tuxedos!
He indeed was a public figure. Indeed any attempt at restoration of any kind would of necessity have to include a public statement of some kind.
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A public statement to who? The org you were ostracized from? I don't see the point, maybe he does not either. Maybe he made such a statement to someone else...any org that took him in. What I am saying is all I see is rumors and talk. I have no idea of anything in this man's life. All I know is when he was arrested that event spread like wildfire throughout the UPC....what happened immediately after that? Was he just defrocked and shunned? Did the elders take him in and seek to restore him? Or was he just instantly an outcast? What constitutes a public admission or apology? Does he appear on TV? No that won't work. Does he send a letter to every UPC pastor? Does he tell the gen sup? Does he contact News Week? He needs to repent, if he has not...Does he need to contact every person in the UPC? And does it really really matter to the UPC? At this stage of being persona non grata, would it matter to LW? Can he repent and not admit to everyone his sins and then say he repented?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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01-10-2008, 07:23 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev
Then you didn't read the posts!
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Apparently you did, but rather than give a quick answer you'd rather just keep posting how I need to read, I did not read...well I read through a lot but this thread is not important enough for me to spend all day catching up and if the post was that important for me to know Im sure you'd just give me a summary...so I guess Ill just remain ignorant as to how evil LW is 
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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01-10-2008, 07:25 PM
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Forget-it
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Restore: Repair
Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
I don't think so....not in the UPC sorry to say. I have seen it on a local level...anyone that is a homosexual is suspect even after coming to the Lord....
A public statement to who? The org you were ostracized from? I don't see the point, maybe he does not either. Maybe he made such a statement to someone else...any org that took him in. What I am saying is all I see is rumors and talk. I have no idea of anything in this man's life. All I know is when he was arrested that event spread like wildfire throughout the UPC....what happened immediately after that? Was he just defrocked and shunned? Did the elders take him in and seek to restore him? Or was he just instantly an outcast? What constitutes a public admission or apology? Does he appear on TV? No that won't work. Does he send a letter to every UPC pastor? Does he tell the gen sup? Does he contact News Week? He needs to repent, if he has not...Does he need to contact every person in the UPC? And does it really really matter to the UPC? At this stage of being persona non grata, would it matter to LW? Can he repent and not admit to everyone his sins and then say he repented? |
Prax, I don't know what to say to tall that, but I can say there is too much smoke for there not to be fire. I wish I could say more, but that would require naming names I have been asked never to name in regard to this subject. If this dissapoints you in my response, all I can do is apologize and let whatever judgement you heap upon my shoulders hang there.
There has been plenty I have been told over the years about a great many subjects. I won't betray the trust those had in me, though it would make me look good in a lot of cases. I am sorry if you see me as judgemental.
__________________
Dr. Flemming
L.L.B.B.A.
Certified L.O.O.N.
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01-10-2008, 07:32 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retsambeW
Prax, I don't know what to say to tall that, but I can say there is too much smoke for there not to be fire. I wish I could say more, but that would require naming names I have been asked never to name in regard to this subject. If this dissapoints you in my response, all I can do is apologize and let whatever judgement you heap upon my shoulders hang there.
There has been plenty I have been told over the years about a great many subjects. I won't betray the trust those had in me, though it would make me look good in a lot of cases. I am sorry if you see me as judgemental.
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It does not disappoint me. All I can say is that personally I just don't know what state the man is in spiritually.. I'd like to see him be healed
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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01-10-2008, 07:38 PM
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Forget-it
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
It does not disappoint me. All I can say is that personally I just don't know what state the man is in spiritually.. I'd like to see him be healed
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Truth to tell Prax, I would like to see him, and anyone that wanders away from good, Godly actions, be able to be healed.
__________________
Dr. Flemming
L.L.B.B.A.
Certified L.O.O.N.
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