I guess we must travel in totally different circles.
My experience and perspective have been completely different than yours.
I have heard about preachers going on long fasts for specific gifts, like prophecy or healing, but I have never known that to be a mainstream practice. I don't think that is a valid approach anyway, fasting to try and get God to give you something that is a gift operated at His discretion. Fasting isn't spiritual green stamps that we trade in for stuff in the catalog. So from the beginning, your premise doesn't ring with me.
And as a young man, I was taught by my elders to pray for wisdom, understanding, and knowledge, every day. Make that a daily prayer.
I practice this and teach my young men this same thing.
Furthermore, I read a chapter of proverbs every day, reading through the entire Book every month, and require my young preachers to practice this also. I have been doing this for years.
I have seen a lot of people healed, and been used in prophecy and various other gifts too, but have not ever fasted a day for any specific "gift." I would question the motives of someone doing that.
I think it is far better to seek Jesus, who is the Giver, and if I get Him, I'll have all the gifts I need when they are needed.
So your foundational premise--that Pentecostals are all about seeking sensational, flesh exalting supernatural gifts, and have no interest in wisdom and basic principles of godliness--is absolutely false from where I stand.
It may apply to some fringe elements without a doubt. And maybe that's all you have had experience with. On one post, you mentioned Richard Heard...that explains a lot.
But this is not true for the vast majority of Apostolic men who are in the trenches, digging out works for God day in and day out, and not making the news.
Well, after 15 pages, I get an answer! Great! I really appreciate it. I have witnessed sensationalism in certain extreme environments growing up. Also, have had some exposure to UPC bible school and can say that what I witnessed did encourage sensationalism.
Also, beyond UPC and into mainstream pentecostalism, we see sensationalism elevated as a sign or approval of God. Gold teeth, gold falling out of the sky, laughing, barking, prophecy, etc.
Its good to hear from a balanced perspective from the grass roots. I do agree with you that fasting, extreme prayer, etc. is not the appropriate venue to seek God's hand. However, those methods are taught as a sign of spiritualism.
It would behoove our educational institutions to teach balance and wisdom as practical applications. Even role playing certain situations, crisis intervention, hostile saints, etc. Thanks for your input.
In answer to the thread's question, some Apostolics are very unwise.
the wording i used was too strong for which i apologize.
I got chastised last night for making that comment.
I do believe though that if someone is already emotionally unstable, constant hate speech can cause unstable people to do things that normal people would never dream of doing without it being the intention of those discussing those they hate
Well, after 15 pages, I get an answer! Great! I really appreciate it. I have witnessed sensationalism in certain extreme environments growing up. Also, have had some exposure to UPC bible school and can say that what I witnessed did encourage sensationalism.
Also, beyond UPC and into mainstream pentecostalism, we see sensationalism elevated as a sign or approval of God. Gold teeth, gold falling out of the sky, laughing, barking, prophecy, etc.
Its good to hear from a balanced perspective from the grass roots. I do agree with you that fasting, extreme prayer, etc. is not the appropriate venue to seek God's hand. However, those methods are taught as a sign of spiritualism.
I, personally, have not witnessed extremism when it comes to the gifts of the Spirit in the three different churches I have been a member of, although I have heard it is out there. There are biblical teachings concerning these things in 1 Corinthians. I would have disagree with you and Coonskinner regarding seeking spiritual gifts. I see nothing wrong with praying for spiritual gifts and fasting along with prayer. The motive of some may be wrong but prayer and fasting for spiritual gifts so that the manifestation of the Spirit is present in the church is not wrong.
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.1 Cor 14:1
Paul talked about coming to Rome in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ, Rom 15:29, and to Corinth in the power of the Spirit:
1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co 4:19-20 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
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It would behoove our educational institutions to teach balance and wisdom as practical applications. Even role playing certain situations, crisis intervention, hostile saints, etc.
I agree with what Coonskinner has said about wisdom and the differences between the wisdom God gives us when we pray and the supernatural gift of wisdom. I've even followed his example and have added a chapter of Proverbs to my daily devotions.
I would also agree that Coonskinner is right on about these things being taught at the local church level. We shouldn't have to go away to Bible school to be introduced to these things. After all isn't that partly what the ministry is for:
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
But I find it insulting to put all the onus on the ministry. The saints themselves are responsible to work out their own salvation, to walk with God daily, and to seek God for wisdom. We can't put all the blame on the ministry. If you know of a minister that lacks wisdom, pray for him, and fast for him.
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; Col 1:9
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. James 1:5
It's much easier to lay blame instead of praying for others.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
the wording i used was too strong for which i apologize.
I got chastised last night for making that comment.
I do believe though that if someone is already emotionally unstable, constant hate speech can cause unstable people to do things that normal people would never dream of doing without it being the intention of those discussing those they hate
Apology accepted.
As to the comment about constant hate speech, I guess we see what we want to see. (And perhaps some of the things posted here on AFF are not really as hateful toward us as I perceive them.) I can't even count the number of times Matthew was encouraged to move on with his life, not to let the people that hurt him determine his future. He was urged, many times, to get help. In fact, he was in counseling for at least a while, though I don't know if that was due to our advice or not.
Anyway, as I said, I accept your apology. And it would be nice if this verbal jousting could just end, here and now. If it continues, nobody would win.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
As to the comment about constant hate speech, I guess we see what we want to see. (And perhaps some of the things posted here on AFF are not really as hateful toward us as I perceive them.) I can't even count the number of times Matthew was encouraged to move on with his life, not to let the people that hurt him determine his future. He was urged, many times, to get help. In fact, he was in counseling for at least a while, though I don't know if that was due to our advice or not.
Anyway, as I said, I accept your apology. And it would be nice if this verbal jousting could just end, here and now. If it continues, nobody would win.
This is what happens w/ montage reporting ... it is possible to thread enough text, audio, pictures, etc ... in such a way to persuade people to believe what you want them to believe.
It's unfortunate some are not wise enough to be objective and critically process what they read and see.
This is what happens w/ montage reporting ... it is possible to thread enough text, audio, pictures, etc ... in such a way to persuade people to believe what you want them to believe.
It's unfortunte some are not wise enough to objective and critically process what they read and see.
Dan, did you read the thread that was deleted? What did you think of some of the stuff Luther (I think I have the name right) wrote about pentecostals and his plans to detox them from their cult? I understood completely what he was saying in his post. I'm all the more wiser for knowing what their (his) agenda is.
And, Dan, I like discussing the Bible with those that don't agree with me or it. I was once an atheist and I remember the mindset I had then. So I'm not adverse to Timmy and SheltieDad being here but I don't like deceitfulness.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
MIZPEH you an athesist that is really hard to believe as you seem so on-fire for God.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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