*T.L Craft: A further look into His Departure*

[timlan2057]

JCM died a long time before the doors were officially locked.

Much of its demise had to do with the fact the UPC "bible college" paradigm is as outmoded as the NCAA's bowl system.

Yes, we alumni have some great memories of the camaraderie, experiences and friendships even though the academics left plenty to be desired.

JCM is dead.

Please ... leave it buried.

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

JCM died a long time before the doors were officially locked.

Much of its demise had to do with the fact the UPC "bible college" paradigm is as outmoded as the NCAA's bowl system.

Yes, we alumni have some great memories of the camaraderie, experiences and friendships even though the academics left plenty to be desired.

JCM is dead.

Please ... leave it buried.

This brings to mind a new playoff system for UPCI Bible schools....man would those teams be lousy. *I had another word but not sure if it is kosher on AFF*

I think Sacramento is trying to get a new mega-school off of the ground...

[timlan2057]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

This brings to mind a new playoff system for UPCI Bible schools....man would those teams be lousy. *I has another word but not sure if it is kosher on AFF*

I think Sacramento is trying to get a new mega-school off of the ground...

CC1 and I were men of vision.

Back about 30 years ago we believed that by 2007 JCM and other UPC Bible Schools would have an enrollement of about 2000 each and would be playing an NCAA Division III athletic schedule.

Our vision kinda went south.

[The Closer]

Originally Posted by Minister_WD

I think that it's a fair assessment to say, out of all the Men leaving over resolution 4,TLC's Departure is the most surprising to myself and most of the Brethren(at least the ones I've have spoken with).While I certainly respect Elder Craft's right to do as he wishes,quite honestly,I am hurt and dismayed over this one more than any of the major players that are spearheading the New Organization in Tulsa.

Since it was confirmed by Bro Epley and already discussed on a previous Thread,for the sake of discusion,I am going a step further to disclose a few other details of interest. My first concern is the conflict that this whole ordeal appears to be causing in families,more than one I might add. Chris Craft was offered the youth president, but flatly refused and said he would not be going to Tulsa.
Secondly,is it really Christ-like to recruit ministers for this new organization and try to convince them to leave the UPC? Brethren, is it right to entice men of influence by offering positions,perhaps for the sake of gaining others? TLC has been offered the Overseer position for 2009 if he would sign on as 7th name. They are calling people and offering positions like crazy.

you need to check your information source

because it is bad

totally false information on Bro Craft

please dont spread false information

he is going to the meeting but he is not leaving the organization

[CC1]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

CC1 and I were men of vision.

Back about 30 years ago we believed that by 2007 JCM and other UPC Bible Schools would have an enrollement of about 2000 each and would be playing an NCAA Division III athletic schedule.

Our vision kinda went south.

Yup. I thought at least 2,000 an probably 5,000 or more and a JCM graduate in almost every UPC pulpit and choir loft in the world!

[josh]

Originally Posted by The Closer

you need to check your information source

because it is bad

totally false information on Bro Craft

please dont spread false information

he is going to the meeting but he is not leaving the organization

Whether he leaves the UPC can't be said definitively.

He's definitely upset enough to do so, but the Tulsa deal is still in some flux and it might not require men to leave. If he is forced to choose between the two directions, there remains little doubt which way he will go...in my humble opinion.

I do know that he wasn't "offered a position," though. He voluntarily asked to be a part of the process

Positions arent' being "offered." It is pretty much a given that the organizers will be among the first leaders...which will be unpaid, one year positions.

[josh]

Originally Posted by CC1

The weird thing to me about the possibility of TLC leaving over Res 4 is that other than church being on TV and wedding rings (unless you are a wealthy tithe payer) TLC is not really that conservative. Or at least he wasn't when I was around him in the mid 70's to 1981. I do realize that the JCM pendelum swung far to the right in the Keith Clark era and that leading up to that FPC and TLC were in love with KC (only to be jilted at the altar once KC was in control of JCM). Perhaps that swing to the conservative side was deeper than I thought.

I have spent time with TLC a little in the past year and he was the same as he was back 25-30 years ago when I was around him al the time. Other than the graying hair he has aged remarkablly little. He was just as funny as ever as he shared something that I wish I could repeat here but can't!!!

I know that JCM not being successful has to weigh heavily on him as he invested so much time, energy, and money in it. I hope that in time he will realize what a tremendous effect he has had on the body of Christ and the Great Commission through the lives he touched. Not only the ones that turned out ultra cons but us heathern exUPCer's who have allegedly "gone charismatic".

CC1, I had the privilege of working closely with Bro Craft for several years. He is all that you say...and more.

One thing folks tend to forget, though.... When Bro Craft has a conviction about something, he can be as forceful and tenacious as anyone you've ever met.

He's not afraid of making decisions to his political hurt. I remember a time when he stood on the District Conference floor and made every district official mad at him...but I loved every minute. He stood for what he felt was right and didn't care what anyone thought.

Whatever Bro Craft is doing right now, he's not testing the political wind direction.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by josh

Positions arent' being "offered." It is pretty much a given that the organizers will be among the first leaders...which will be unpaid, one year positions.

As in JG 2008 Overseer ... and TLC 2009 Overseer?

[josh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

As in JG 2008 Overseer ... and TLC 2009 Overseer?

I have no idea what order it will be...or if TLC will be one.

I'm not joining, but am fairly close to some of the organizers and have spoken at length with them.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by josh

Whatever Bro Craft is doing right now, he's not testing the political wind direction.

I agree completely. Especially now that he is retired and has nothing to lose!