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View Poll Results: Do You Believe in Women Preachers?
Yes 128 62.75%
No 55 26.96%
Don't Care 21 10.29%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1621  
Old 02-15-2011, 06:52 PM
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Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

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Originally Posted by rdp View Post
I already demonstrated to you that the Kiss was not tied to the order of creation as "women preacher's" is. Do I have to sit here & just repeat myself all day?

See Prax, here's the problem w/ your hermeneutical methodology: After you get finished relegating everything that doesn't fir your fancy to mere "cultural relevance," that's the same thing the Gay "preacher's" say! After a while, repentance will merely be "cultural," the more excellent route is to obey the Word of God as consistently as we can...not erase what we don't like in the name of "culture"!
Whether it's tied to creation (one of your evidences) or not -- if you believe it's a literal command to be obeyed, then that's what it is.

Culture relevance is a big part of interpretation, rdp.
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  #1622  
Old 02-15-2011, 06:53 PM
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Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
This is a red herring argument and a strawman argument. Nobody said the kiss has anything to do with order of creation or women preachers. The fact that you ignore the point and introduce some other point is a red herring.

the Point HERE was that people recognize that the kiss was NOT a new command given by Paul, even though Paul said to greet each other with one. The other point was that even people that insist on obeying everything the bible says don't really obey everything the bible says. And why? Because they recognize that some things were not meant to be taken as a command for all generations.

So the question remains, Do you teach everyone that they have to greet each other with a kiss because Paul said so? Yes or no?


Its not a matter of what fits my fancy. It's a matter of understanding what the bible says. It is not the same thing as gay preachers because NOT everything in the bible was about the culture. Again you have to study this stuff out and research it, like the kiss even OP recognized was about culture
Way to point out that logical fallacy

Let's all kiss and go home
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  #1623  
Old 02-15-2011, 06:59 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
I just did present evidence of a prophetess. Do you really think you can win an argument by introducing smilies? lol good grief

Let's refresh your memory again. What IS a prophetess?

Luk 2:36 And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with her husband seven years from when she was a virgin,

The greek word here is the feminine tense of the masculine form for prophet.

While you're appealling to gender specifics regarding grammar. Tell us why the term "elders" is ALWAYS in the MASCULINE & NEVER in FEMININE . Hmmm..........Moving right along.

Here is a little grammar lesson for you. In the Greek since Anna is a female, the noun form of the word prophet would have to be used. So Anna is a prophetess. It's the same word but with a feminine ending. Your "argument" here is a red herring. A "red herring" argument is used to avoid the real issue and try to deflect or misdirect the attention somewhere else, obfuscating the real issue. Here you attempt to obfuscate the issue of prophetess to some other issue of "Elders". So apparently this person realizes his argument is dead in the water and so he hopes to change the issue from preachers and prophetesses to elders?

While we are at it, maybe you can tell us why "church" is always feminine?

The same word is used in the LXX version of the OT
Jdg 4:4 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time.

2Ki 22:14 So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe (now she lived in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter), and they talked with her.

So what is a prophet?
Act 21:10 While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea.
Act 21:11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, "Thus says the Holy Spirit, 'This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'"

Prophet
In the NT prophḗtēs corresponds to the person who in the OT spoke under divine influence and inspiration. This included the foretelling future events or the exhorting, reproving, and threatening of individuals or nations as the ambassador of God and the interpreter of His will to men (Ezek. 2). Hence the prophet spoke not his own thoughts but what he received from God, retaining, however, his own consciousness and self-possession (Exo_7:1; 2Pe_1:20-21; especially 1Co_14:32).

And as we have seen a prophetess is a feminine version of the same word

So it's interesting that the verse in question comes just before the one above

(II) To tell forth God's message, hence the noun prophḗtēs (G4396), prophet, is the proclaimer, one who speaks out the counsel of God with the clearness, energy, and authority which spring from the consciousness of speaking in God's name and having received a direct message from Him to deliver. THUS, ONE MAY PROPHESY WITHOUT BEING A PROPHET IN THE STRICT SENSE OF THE WORD. A prophḗtēs, both in the OT and NT, is not primarily one who foretells things to come, but who (having been taught of God) speaks out His will (Deu_18:18; Is. chap. 1; Jer. chap. 1; Ezek. chap. 2; 1Co_14:3). The art of heathen

Did ya' see it in red above...or did ya' miss it?? All those quotes & NOT A ONE OF THEM SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT EXPOUNDING FROM THE SCRIPTURES...as many modern women do today [so I hear]. AND, to make matters worse, Prophecy connotes the lofty & spontaneuous utterance of the revealing of the hidden [much like interpretation of tongues w/out the tongue]...not a sermon from the Scriptures. Are you getting this Prax??

Did YOU? Did you see what it meant by "in the strict sense of the word"? Clearly you did not get it. This is saying a Prophet can be NOT just someone that fortells the future but someone that "one who speaks out the counsel of God with the clearness, energy, and authority which spring from the consciousness of speaking in God's name and having received a direct message from Him to deliver." You seemed to miss that part. If you read it in context you'd see that. Instead you read it just like you read the word of God, pulling bits and pieces OUT of context and destroying the original meaning.

So in other words what this just said was a Prophet is not always someone that strictly or only predicts the future. Nice try though

Those girls were prophetesses. They prophecied.

Then as soon as I pop a pimple I'm a dermatologist...right? Why not??

If to pop a pimple is the definition of "dermatologist" yes, but it isn't

Now let's look at the gift!
1Co 14:3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.

Notice next how prophecy is one of the ways to edify the church like teaching?

1Co 14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?

Then Notice what Paul says to the church?
1Co 14:26 What should you do then, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each one has a song, has a lesson, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all these things be done for the strengthening of the church.

Also notice what Paul says about those exercising the gift of prophecy? He calls them prophets
1Co 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak and the others should evaluate what is said.

And what is prophecy for? Learning
1Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy one after another, so all can learn and be encouraged.

"Preacher" is not an office. Teachers are not Preachers. A teacher can be a preacher but those office or rolls are not the same. Same goes for the other offices. So the words are not synonymous.

The word Preach means to proclaim. Notice Paul uses it distinctly from being an Apostle and a teacher
1Ti 2:7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

Sorry but you haven't done your homework.
Nice quotes about the gifts of the Spirit....not "preaching sermons to men"! Still waiting on you to provide the reference where a woman did this in Scripture:___________? Better go do a little more "homework"!

Nice way to ignore the arguments that refute yours
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  #1624  
Old 02-15-2011, 07:04 PM
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Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

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Originally Posted by Socialite View Post
Some say tomotoe, others say tomato

So... your argument is, though scriptures refer to someone as a prophetess, the prophet exceeds one who prophesies because they are a spiritual position in the Church? Is that what you're saying?

So can a woman preach even if she's not a preacher?
** Bump **
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  #1625  
Old 02-15-2011, 07:08 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdp View Post
Wrong again Monfrare...Peter specifically singled out & addressed the "Brethren" [Acts 1:16] in tending to the matter. Looks like someone has dropped the ball again!
The word is the greek word for disciple. Not the same word used in the previous verse for brothers

Just like the entire church is called by the feminine word for church, both men and women are called disciples here

NET bible commentary "Or "brethren" (but the term includes both male and female believers present in this gathering, as indicated by those named in Act_1:13-14)."
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #1626  
Old 02-15-2011, 07:14 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdp View Post
Most police officers wear dark colored shirts...so now all who wear dark shirts are automatically police officers??? Huh'...this is the blanket "logic" you're attempting to pass off.

Anything to erase the biblical instructions to the church eh' Prax. "I do not allow a woman to to teach, or to excercise authority over a man. She is to reamin quiet. Put your eraser down Prax...it's still there!
If "wearing dark colored shirts" was the definition of what a police officer is, then yes. But it isn't.

Again Paul refers to those that operate in the gift of prophecy "prophets". Sorry but your argument just isn't working. I gave you the definition from both scriptures and the greek dictionary
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #1627  
Old 02-15-2011, 07:16 PM
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Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

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Originally Posted by rdp View Post
Oh broher...nice craw-fish dance here. The problem here is that YOU become the judge of what's "relevant" today & what's not. This is the difference between "destructive criticisms" {Praxeas} vs. "Constructive Criticisms". As for us, we teach obedience to the BIBLE....in principle & precept! I've addressed the "silly "Kiss" argument ad nauseum. Funny how you fight the trinies, then use their same forms of argumentation [Ughhh, does "TheLayman" sound familiar]!? Dinner is almost served...check back later this week. Same ol' lame speculations in order to erase the Bible [or at least the parts you don't like...as Thomas Jefferson did!].......
You aren't actually engaging in my argument. You are sidestepping it with red herring arguments.

The point remains Paul commanded to greet each other with a kiss. Do you do this? Do you teach others to do it as a command of God? Yes or no?
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #1628  
Old 02-15-2011, 07:16 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

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Originally Posted by Socialite View Post
Way to point out that logical fallacy

Let's all kiss and go home
hehe, thanks
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #1629  
Old 02-15-2011, 07:30 PM
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Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

Moses said in Numbers 11:29, "Would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put His spirit upon them!"
What a man! What a spirit!
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  #1630  
Old 02-15-2011, 07:32 PM
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Re: Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

Moses said in Numbers 11:29, "Would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put His spirit upon them!"
What a man! What a spirit!
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