How much information should the saints expect from their pastor?

[anapko]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I wouldn't withhold the info from anyone who asked, but I see absolutely no profit whatsoever in blathering on about a bunch of political maueverings, many of which I am not proud to even be a part of, and which put some of the ministry in a negative light.

But in your effort to not politicalize the pulpit you do not inform your people, one finds out through other means that a resolution has passed that you were not in favor of, what then? I am not attacking your preaching style or methods! The question was, do you inform your people of what happens at GC. Your responses sidestep the issue and are turning it into a preaching mandate. No sir, instead of feeling odd at a resolution(s) that didn't go your way to not tell the people, face up to it and say, "It was voted in this fashion, I am not in favor of it, but it won't stop our church for Jesus". That is all you have to say.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

The truth is.....

You just belong to a church whose pastor is involved in a ministerial fellowship. The impact is more with him than the individual saints. You will find very few pastors, IMO, who will get up and share with their congregation the politics of the organization in which they belong to.

I agree.. and most saints, unless they are very involved in district functions, don't even know who the superintendent is. They just belong to a church.

I know at camp they show video about SFC, and after talking with some people really realized just how many of the average saints have no clue who anyone is at HQ. I was surprised at the lack of name recognition.

I think those more involved in ministry or part of minister's families or connected really have any knowledge of organizational politics.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Do the AOF of the UPC apply only to Licensed Ministers?

The UPC is a ministerial fellowship, period.

You said this, Prax:

Originally Posted by Praxeas
But imagine the shock of a person who believes they are UPC and believes certain things about the UPC only to find out several years later the UPC changed and your Pastor kept the news from you

Prax, I don't teach our people to be "UPC."

I never justify anything I preach on the basis that "this is what we believe because we are UPC."

I teach what I teach because it is Bible.

That is the safe way.

Since I don't talk much about UPC stuff to the people, they don't consider it greatly important, by and large.

Thus, this is a moot point where we are concerned.

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Do the AOF of the UPC apply only to Licensed Ministers?

Bro,

Our local UPC is affiliated.
The basis for membership in it, is belief in and compliance with the AOF.
Sad thing is most members don't even KNOW what the AOF ARE.
I know this because I've asked them.

Nina

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The UPC is a ministerial fellowship, period.

I've copied a few excepts from the manual and bolded parts for my own amusement.

ARTICLE XX
LOCAL ASSEMBLIES

Section 1. Affiliation.

Preamble: All true Pentecostal believers associating themselves in local assemblies, and accepting their full personal share of responsibility for maintenance and promotion of scriptural order in the local body shall have a standard for membership. This standard may be determined altogether by the local assembly itself, providing it does not conflict with the Articles of Faith of the United Pentecostal Church.

It is recommended that each such assembly affiliate itself with the United Pentecostal Church International for the sake of identification, fellowship, cooperation and protection.

We wholeheartedly disapprove of our people...

RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS

The annual conference is declared to be an international religious holiday for all members, and all members are urged to attend. Furthermore, since the founding of the church occurred on the Day of Pentecost, Pentecost Sunday is also a recognized religious holiday.

Section 4. Identification.

1. Each church that is either affiliated with the United Pentecostal Church International or is pastored by a minister who holds license or credentials with the United Pentecostal Church International shall identify by sign or otherwise on the outside of its church building that it is associated with the United Pentecostal Church International.

I wonder if every church pastored by a UPC minister follows that one?

and finally... (Drumroll please....)

ARTICLE II
MEMBERSHIP

Membership in the United Pentecostal Church International shall consist of all
ministers and missionaries holding an accredited credential or license, and all members of local assemblies which are affiliated with us, and shall be called "Organization."

[anapko]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

I've copied a few excepts from the manual and bolded parts for my own amusement.





I wonder if every church pastored by a UPC minister follows that one?

and finally... (Drumroll please....)

Precisely what I have been saying!!! The UPC book defines it as such! Now, the "burden" falls to the pastors and ministers to inform their congregation of what happens in the people's church, not the fellowship of minister's church.

Good Post!!!

[Blubayou]

I have always felt that I was a member of the United Pentecostal Church. However, recent events have shaken my belief in this and now I realize that the UPCI is a ministerial organization and I have no place in it as a member. I attend a UPCI church, we support UPCI outreaches, but I am not a member. Uhmm- I have always been proud to say I was UPCI, whenever I when to visit a city I always looked up the UPCI church, but from now on I think I will identify myself as Apostolic and leave it at that.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Right...so the UPC is not a fellowship of believers,

Prax, you know full well that the United Pentecostal Church International is a ministerial fellowship of licensed ministers. That is why the group was formed to license ministers only. Its rules are for those who hold license with the organization. These licensed members must adhere to what the organization believes, and they are admonished to pass the doctrine to those they preach to, but as far as ministerial issues are concerned that is up to the minister and his own discretion on what he will bring to his congregation.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

just anyone that happens to get a license.

Those who would happen to get licensed would happen to be ministers and not just anyone. Why would you push to have every person in the congregation to hold license? Would you also have little children to hold license?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Everyone else is made to feel disenfranchised,

It's a ministerial fellowship? So please tell me what parts of the voting should the congregations vote on? What ages should be granted a voting right?
I think your argument is un founded.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

though they are often asked to financially support the UPC. Churches are called UPC, even though it's only a fellowship of ministers...

The people are asked to support ministry and those ministries they are asked to support are United Pentecostal? Why would that be strange? Should they have to hold a license with the organization in order to help support it?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Why does the UPC count churches and non-licensed members to show how big it is, if the UPC is only a fellowship of licensed ministers?

It's because the have ministers and there is a constituency.

con·stit·u·en·cy (kn-stch-n-s)
n. pl. con·stit·u·en·cies

a. A group of supporters or patrons.
b. A group served by an organization or institution; a clientele


It's all pretty simple and I cannot understand your compliants.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by anapko81

But in your effort to not politicalize the pulpit you do not inform your people, one finds out through other means that a resolution has passed that you were not in favor of, what then?

Well that would be up to that local group, and from past experiences church families really don't care what another congregation, fellowship, or community is doing. As far as they are concerned what ever their minister is focusing on is all that matters with them. A congregation wants to know what their minister has on his mind and what anyone else is doing really does not effect them.

Listen anyone here has heard time and time again from their ministers when they would go to a fellowship another church or group that they may see or hear things that are not taught in their local congregation. So those Brothers and Sisters are told that they should handle themselves in a proper manner and not take things the wrong way. Always to keep in mind of the standards that are taught in their perticular congregation.

Same thing with those who choose to stay with the UPCI they will still preach as they always have and teach their people how they always taught them. Time proves all things and we will have to wait and see how everything jells out over the years.

Originally Posted by anapko81

I am not attacking your preaching style or methods! The question was, do you inform your people of what happens at GC.

My question is what if he doesn't, does that change anything for the local congregation, I mean if they are not even informed of who the General Superintendent is, then why worry about the other issues?

Originally Posted by anapko81

Your responses sidestep the issue and are turning it into a preaching mandate. No sir, instead of feeling odd at a resolution(s) that didn't go your way to not tell the people, face up to it and say, "It was voted in this fashion, I am not in favor of it, but it won't stop our church for Jesus". That is all you have to say.

The Elder is not sidestepping anything, and why bring up an issue that everyone will be looking at him and saying "and.....?" Brother leave it be, I think there is no issue, the Elder has been preaching and teaching and the people are made to feel they are part of the Body of Christ and not Hazelwood.

I cannot see why you all would continue to carry on with this argument with Elder CS.


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Trouvere]

It don't matter to me....wasn't that a song?