Is the Father the Son? - Page 16

mizpeh · #**151** 09-09-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

BOOM ... I promote One God .... If we are going make inferences please base it on my posts ....

not once have I promoted 3 persons here .... even an elementary, cursory reading would indicate so ....

Stuff like this flusters me only because conclusions are drawn that are way off base.

I'm promoting tolerance as I view it .... don't get one confused w/ the other ....

Dan, you may not see it but your advocacy of tolerance alienates Oneness believers because you seem to take offence with what we are saying and advocating what a Trinitarian says. It leads some to believe you agree with the doctrine of the Trinity and disagree with Oneness theology.

This is the impression you are giving. If someone came in to read this discussion who has never been here before or knew who you were, they might think you were a Trinitarian because you never AMEN or pat the Oneness believers on the back for their well-made points but you have consistently been giving kudos and support to a Trinitarian.

This is not to say you can never agree with a Trinitarian. I'm just making an observation. You are being one-sided with your cheerleading. Spread the love around, Dan.

stmatthew · #**152** 09-09-2007, 12:58 AM

I have a question.

If Jesus was God the Son and he is co-equal to God the Father (If there is only One God, then they must be co-equal) then how come we see the following demonstrating the man Jesus not being co-equal to God?

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: - This signifies that Jesus did not have ALL THINGS at some point.
Mark 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. - This shows that the Father knew something the Son did not know.
Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. - This shows that Jesus had a will separate from the Father

These are just a few of the verses that show a "separation" of Son and Father. Again, you can't be co-equal, and not equal at the same time.

Felicity · #**153** 09-09-2007, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I see your point and agree with you, but children grow in knowledge. Our relationship with God changes and matures as we come to know him in a fuller way.

Felicity, I can't tell you how much I like talking with you even when we disagree.

I don't know that we disagree on much really.

Thanks!

BoredOutOfMyMind · #**154** 09-09-2007, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Perhaps it's time to go to bed .... maybe a re-reading in the morning will help us all .... enjoy the rest of your evening.

I quoted you from page 5 and 15.

You requested YOUR posts.

I quoted them WITH the linkbacks.

SDG · #**155** 09-09-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Dan, you may not see it but your advocacy of tolerance alienates Oneness believers because you seem to take offence with what we are saying and advocating what a Trinitarian says. It leads some to believe you agree with the doctrine of the Trinity and disagree with Oneness theology.

This is the impression you are giving. If someone came into read this discussion who has never been here before or knew who you were, they might think you were a Trinitarian because you never AMEN or pat the Oneness believers on the back for their well-made points but you have consistently been giving kudos and support to a Trinitarian.

This is not to say you can never agree with a Trinitarian. I'm just making an observation. You are being one-sided with your cheerleading. Spread the love around, Dan.

Oh boy ....

Perhaps we should disallow Trinitarians to post here .... as not to tempt me

or make a handful of us wonder how Oneness I am. We're all big boys and girls and if we can't handle scrutiny of our beliefs then Deeper Waters may not be for us.

BoredOutOfMyMind · #**156** 09-09-2007, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Oh boy ....

Perhaps we should disallow Trinitarians to post here .... as not to tempt me

or make a handful of us wonder how Oneness I am. We're all big boys and girls and if we can't handle scrutiny of our beliefs then Deeper Waters may not be for us.

Their is a vast difference scrutiny and promotion of opposing views.

Oh, and I read this entire thread.

mizpeh · #**157** 09-09-2007, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Oh boy ....

Perhaps we should disallow Trinitarians to post here .... as not to tempt me

or make a handful of us wonder how Oneness I am. We're all big boys and girls and if we can't handle scrutiny of our beliefs then Deeper Waters may not be for us.

Dan, your not hearing what I'm saying.

I like discussing the Bible with Trinitarians. I believe our beliefs can handle scrutiny.

Once in awhile you should show some solidarity with other Oneness believers, that's all. I'm not questioning whether you are Oneness or not. I believe you are.

SDG · #**158** 09-09-2007, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

I quoted you from page 5 and 15.

You requested YOUR posts.

I quoted them WITH the linkbacks.

Help me out BOOM ... You accuse me of promoting 3 persons ...

You see that in this post? I see One.

Quote:

He who IS the Father IS God!
He who IS the Son IS God!
He who IS the Holy Spirit IS God!

It will take a some acrobatics to pin tri-theism on me.

SDG · #**159** 09-09-2007, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Let me help out with this issue once again ... [One more LOL, for Praxeas.]

First, indubitably, I'm more Oneness than you'll ever be ... and questioning that fact does nothing to change it. I'm secure in it.

The Oneness model to understanding our God is easiest for me to comprehend for many reasons ... most probably because I grew up in it...

It's about focus, my dear friend.

We focus on the deity of Jesus Christ while still acknowledging the distinctions in how God has revealed himself ....

Trinitarians focus a lot of their energies on the distinctions of God while still acknowledging the deity of Jesus Christ ....

As i stated earlier an earlier thread:

... the existence of this inane debate revolves around:

1. semantics over words such as persons, distinctions, modes, etc.
2. pride in presenting facts, figures,scripture, grammar, logic, scholarship and Church history while debunking the other side's facts, figures, logic, interpretation of scripture, grammar, scholarship and Church history. {I want to be right and prove you wrong while never admitting when I am wrong}
3. prejudices and hatreds based on a century old feud

eventually leading to more circular debates on:

4. the proper baptismal formula and questioning the other's salvation

and most often culminates in:

5. name calling, sensitivities hurt, and insults
---------------------------

In the end, this is what matters ... both sides whole heartedly agree and believe in:

1. One God
2.The Mighty God in Christ
3. Jesus is fully man and fully God
4. Jesus is the Son of God
5. Jesus died for our sins and was raised to give us new life.
6. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Carry on ... lol.

Once again, I'll reiterate ... the minute I can fully explain and define an infinite and Almighty God ... He ceases to be God ....

and I've become an idolater.

----------------

Are you a Trinophobic, Mizpeh ???... I'd get over it because you'll be spending eternity with several million.

Hmm ... where is that post on promoting three persons being attributed to me?

stmatthew · #**160** 09-09-2007, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I have a question.

If Jesus was God the Son and he is co-equal to God the Father (If there is only One God, then they must be co-equal) then how come we see the following demonstrating the man Jesus not being co-equal to God?

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: - This signifies that Jesus did not have ALL THINGS at some point.
Mark 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. - This shows that the Father knew something the Son did not know.
Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. - This shows that Jesus had a will separate from the Father

These are just a few of the verses that show a "separation" of Son and Father. Again, you can't be co-equal, and not equal at the same time.

Bump