Calling all PAJCers: When does Justification and Remission Happen?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Isn't the answer obvious? Can one truly believe without a change of heart and mind that constitutes repentance? This is the dynamic I am talking about. It's so amazing to me that a sinner can hear the gospel and immediately experience such a profound transformation. It has to be the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit! It's the only explanation!

I'm still waiting for RR to answer when the OT saints had their sins remitted?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Let me throw this in here Dan, was it only the work of the cross that brought atonement? Would the Israelites have been atoned on the day of atonement,if the high priest had just killed the lamb, and did nothing else?

Wikipedia ....

The atonement is a doctrine found within both Christianity and Judaism. It describes how sin can be forgiven by God. In Judaism, Atonement is said to be the process of forgiving or pardoning a transgression. This was originally accomplished through rituals performed by a High Priest on the holiest day of the Jewish year: Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement). In Christian theology, the atonement refers to the forgiving or pardoning of sin through the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, which made possible a reconciliation between God and creation.

Question one ... UHHHHH ....Yes.

Or do you think something else brought us atonement .... or must we re-enact the work of the the Lamb to attain atonement?

Question two ... so we are the Hight Priest, now???

I hold the judicial view ... like most of the Protestant world ... Matt.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Wikipedia ....

The atonement is a doctrine found within both Christianity and Judaism. It describes how sin can be forgiven by God. In Judaism, Atonement is said to be the process of forgiving or pardoning a transgression. This was originally accomplished through rituals performed by a High Priest on the holiest day of the Jewish year: Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement). In Christian theology, the atonement refers to the forgiving or pardoning of sin through the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, which made possible a reconciliation between God and creation.

Question one ... UHHHHH ....Yes.

Or do you think something else brought us atonement .... or must we re-enact the work of the the Lamb to attain atonement?

Question two ... so we are the Hight Priest, now???

I hold the judicial view ... like most of the Protestant world ... Matt.

You missed it.

If the High Priest had not taken the shed blood into the holiest of all and sprinkled it as an offering to God, and if God had not come down and accepted the blood offering, then there would have been no atonement for Israel. This is why the Laws were so meticulously followed concerning the offering. Their lives were counting on Gods acceptance of the offering.


The same with Jesus. IF he has not risen, and took the role of our High Priest, and offered his own blood in the holiest of all in the heavenlies, there would not have been salvation as we know it.


It took not only the death of Christ upon the cross, but his burial , and his resurrection (he could not have ascended into heaven to offer the sacrifice upon the Mercy Seat otherwise). No friend, the cross is not enough to save. It takes the whole gospel to do so. Death, Burial, and Resurrection.

[stmatthew]

BTW - you do know that Wikipedia is not a reliable source for information, because anyone can place info there, whether it it true or not.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

You missed it.

If the High Priest had not taken the shed blood into the holiest of all and sprinkled it as an offering to God, and if God had not come down and accepted the blood offering, then there would have been no atonement for Israel. This is why the Laws were so meticulously followed concerning the offering. Their lives were counting on Gods acceptance of the offering.


The same with Jesus. IF he has not risen, and took the role of our High Priest, and offered his own blood in the holiest of all in the heavenlies, there would not have been salvation as we know it.


It took not only the death of Christ upon the cross, but his burial , and his resurrection (he could not have ascended into heaven to offer the sacrifice upon the Mercy Seat otherwise). No friend, the cross is not enough to save. It takes the whole gospel to do so. Death, Burial, and Resurrection.

I would agree that it takes the "whole" gospel for us to be forgiven and to enter into new life, Matt ... that is a mischaracterization ...

but to think we have to re-enact it for it to be 'activated' is tantamount to a works-based theology ... sorry ...

Originally Posted by stmatthew

You missed it.

If the High Priest had not taken the shed blood into the holiest of all and sprinkled it as an offering to God, and if God had not come down and accepted the blood offering, then there would have been no atonement for Israel. This is why the Laws were so meticulously followed concerning the offering. Their lives were counting on Gods acceptance of the offering.


The same with Jesus. IF he has not risen, and took the role of our High Priest, and offered his own blood in the holiest of all in the heavenlies, there would not have been salvation as we know it.


It took not only the death of Christ upon the cross, but his burial , and his resurrection (he could not have ascended into heaven to offer the sacrifice upon the Mercy Seat otherwise). No friend, the cross is not enough to save. It takes the whole gospel to do so. Death, Burial, and Resurrection.

Excellent post!

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I would agree that it takes the "whole" gospel for us to be forgiven and to enter into new life, Matt ... that is a mischaracterization ...

but to think we have to re-enact it for it to 'activate' it is tantamount to a works-based theology ... sorry ...

Works based, or works inclusive?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

BTW - you do know that Wikipedia is not a reliable source for information, because anyone can place info there, whether it it true or not.

OK .. Matt ... and you disagree with the description given I gather ....

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

Works based, or works inclusive?

Theo ... stay w/ your works based theology ... and call it works inclusive if it satisfies your view.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

You missed it.

If the High Priest had not taken the shed blood into the holiest of all and sprinkled it as an offering to God, and if God had not come down and accepted the blood offering, then there would have been no atonement for Israel. This is why the Laws were so meticulously followed concerning the offering. Their lives were counting on Gods acceptance of the offering.


The same with Jesus. IF he has not risen, and took the role of our High Priest, and offered his own blood in the holiest of all in the heavenlies, there would not have been salvation as we know it.


It took not only the death of Christ upon the cross, but his burial , and his resurrection (he could not have ascended into heaven to offer the sacrifice upon the Mercy Seat otherwise). No friend, the cross is not enough to save. It takes the whole gospel to do so. Death, Burial, and Resurrection.

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It took 2 goats to complete atonement one dead and one live. Died for my sins buried and raised for my justification.