For what it's worth: I have observed two posters - SISTER Murphy and Phil Jones make some very damning and hurtful charges on this thread. It's still early, but I wonder if we will see the usual game played out here-
The "conservatives" falsely charge their brethren with an innuendo and then those brethren respond asking for clarification and challenging the "conservatives" to actually take a stand on principle.
Then the "conservatives" drop out of the thread altogether and refuse to take ownership for their own words against their brethren, only to pop up on some other thread and do the same thing all over again. They did this on FCF, they do this on other apostolic boards... I'm waiting to see what happens here.
For the record: Sister Murphy made a 1 to 1 comparison between Lady Rev's ministry and the criminal act of giving drugs and alcohol to children.
When I compared lady Rev's kids waving sticks to the disciples waving palm branches Phil Jones called me "intentionally obtuse."
My challenge: Is the ministry of Lady Rev comparable to the criminal enticement of children; or is Lady Rev's ministry more along the lines of the disciples of Jesus Christ as described in the Gospel of Luke? Perhaps you have an alternative view?
Lady Rev has answered for herself. Phil, SISTER Murphy?
YOU are the obtuse individual in this thread, friend. I was addressing a mindset, a philosophy, an idea, (that being that we must do whatever we can to keep kids entertained in church or they won't stay in church), and comparing it to the same mindset, philosophy, idea that my mother-in-law espoused (have to do whatever I can to keep my boys at home, even if that means supplying them with drugs and alcohol). Are you truly so dense that you can't comprehend such a simple comparison of philosophy?
I was addressing a mindset, not a specific youth group or church. So, I can give you the benefit of the doubt and say you just read my post through your defensiveness. If that isn't what happened, then I daresay either conviction came your way, or you are just too self focused to see principle in discussion.
Now, shall we discuss the carnal mindset that says that we must have a church and/or youth group that is centered around people rather than Jesus?
Why are you bringing that into the discussion when it's been about something entirely different? Do you believe it's possible to be entertained while worshipping God at the same time?
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Diet Coke, brother. Thanks. Been warm this summer?
Ok my friend ,Diet coke it is.Yes in Alabama it's been quite warm.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
You can rest assured that your brand of challenge is no more intimidating than it is inviting.
What Sis. Roxanne was doing was drawing a parallel between bringing things from the world into the church in order to keep our kids. If you honestly could not see her analogy was nothing like you portrayed it then I owe you an apology. You were not "intentionally" obtuse... just obtuse.
Just as an FYI... as I already stated... I was not taking a position on the issue... just the way Roxanne's post was being misconstrued. I personally enjoy the stick dramas and the dramatic interpretive signing like that done by Sis. Loida Howell. I am in favor of a certain measure of currency in dealing with our youth. I am not, however, in favor of trying to become so much like the world that our youth functions are indistinguishable from the local raves.
When you grow up, come on back and play and maybe we can have a decent conversation based on what is real and not what you perceive to be real!
I agree. I work with young people, and I know full well that some things that were entertaining to me as a young person don't have the same appeal to today's teenager. That is a big no-brainer. However, as was stated by brother Steadfast elsewhere on this forum, the big push for 'relevance' may well be bringing things into the church that should never be there.
My kids were involved in a youth group that at one time had almost 100 kids involved. Today, of all those kids who were under the umbrella of that ministry there are only 4 - maybe 6 serving God. They never had movies or any worldly entertainment. It was pretty exciting at times any way - but even with the very "conservative" approach all those apostolic kids were lost to our movement.
Many have gone on to become successful in terms of a secular career. Most have fallen into some sort of despair or hurtful circumstance. Almost none of them ever darken the doorway of any type of church. They are completely burned out with "religion" - Apostolic religion in particular. And they were in the midst of all of the "conservative" UPC camps, revivals and etc.
Speaking of movies, we had the youth group watch the movie 'Facing the Giants' a few months ago. We had popcorn and drinks and the lights were off. The movie was great and geared at an issue the kids could relate to. When it was over, we had them kneel and pray and the adults present took turns praying with them.
It was such a moving experience that we showed it in the church on a different night so the adults and anyone else could watch it. Most of the teens showed up and several adults. It was great. And the kids still talk about that movie and the lessons learned from it.
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YOU are the obtuse individual in this thread, friend. I was addressing a mindset, a philosophy, an idea, (that being that we must do whatever we can to keep kids entertained in church or they won't stay in church), and comparing it to the same mindset, philosophy, idea that my mother-in-law espoused (have to do whatever I can to keep my boys at home, even if that means supplying them with drugs and alcohol). Are you truly so dense that you can't comprehend such a simple comparison of philosophy?
Are you "truly so dense" that you can't see how hurtful your words were. And with one exception, every other poster saw your original post the way I did.
You were delibertly being hurtful, just as this post is also an attempt by you to use your anger to bully anyone who doesn't agree with your shrill tone. You need to seriously examine your heart, young lady. You are deceived and are causing hurt to people who probably care a very great deal about you.
The fact that you must resort to name calling and ad hominem attacks shows that you yourself realize that you're wrong.
I love everybody here perhaps we're maybe just wearing our feelings on our sleeves a bit.
Sometimes when we are passioned about something ,perhaps our expressions come out in a way that we don't really mean them to.
I sure nobody here has a motive of harming another brother or sister or harmimg the cause of christ.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
*BREAKING NEWS*
Not everything new in our culture is "worldly" and damaging to the Christian lifestyle! There are harmless trends that can be used to help reach the younger generations.
*BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED BICKERINGS!*
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne
You could have said this a long time ago!!!
I seem to always be a day late and a dollar short!
Everyone resists change, but for some it's quite painful!
__________________ Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
I agree. I work with young people, and I know full well that some things that were entertaining to me as a young person don't have the same appeal to today's teenager. That is a big no-brainer. However, as was stated by brother Steadfast elsewhere on this forum, the big push for 'relevance' may well be bringing things into the church that should never be there.
I agree that there are things brought into the church (and usually for adults) that shouldn't be there, and some have been just plain bad ideas and doctrines, but why is it that dramatic signing of a song is powerful and full of worship, but youth steppin to a song isn't?
I'm just trying to understand here. See, I was raised in a conservative church where bowling and skating were seen in the same light as premarital sex. Churches that indulged in those activities were off-limits to us, and we were forbidden to fellowship with those people.
My pastor decided to do away with youth service on Thursday nights when I was about 13, in favor of having a Wed. night service in addition to Sunday services. I watched as the church of 300 dwindled down to less than 30 within 15 years. Even though I hadn't attended the church for the last ten of those years, when I visited shortly before the pastor resigned, I knew every single person there. No growth had taken place, not a soul.
There is a new pastor there now. He does things quite differently and I looked at the church website about a month ago and was amazed at what I saw. I don't know how he's doing it, but there are about 100 people who attend that church, and I know about 20 of them (as they were there before). I don't know what he does with youth, but I know they have a stick drama team.....LOL! I'm also not sure how many youth attend there, but from the pics I saw, I estimate about 20 teens.
Anyway, just giving you my perspective from where I sit and things I have experienced so we can understand each other better. I got a little info from your post above, but expound if you can.
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