Moses was unfaithful when called

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Multiple classes in Heaven?

What verses do you use?

Plz re-read post 141 for what I refer to and do the Biblical search to locate the references I didn't include in the post.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Plz re-read post 141 for what I refer to and do the Biblical search to locate the references I didn't include in the post.

Revelation 22:15 and Revelation 21:8

Don, these two verses aren't speaking of people gaining eternal life in heaven?
How on earth do you expect anyone other than yourself to see a hierarchical caste system?

Revelation 21:7 clearly states that only overcomers will inherit all things, and Jesus will be their God, and they will be Jesus' son.

There are two groups, one are the winners and the others are the LOSERS!

One enters into the family of the Father Jesus Christ, and the others end up in a Lake of Fire were they are consumed. One group is left out of the the City of the New Jerusalem, the True Israel of God, the Body of Christ, the Eden Restored. Yet, the gates are left open, so they can be grafted back into the Tree of Life if they BELIEVE in the One True Living God Jesus Christ.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by diakonos

So, like the caste system in India?

Unlike others who know exactly what the caste system in India is like, I don't. But funny that - that phrase had also popped into my mind.

Is what is seen of angels like a caste system? We have angels, cherubim, seraphim, warriors, messengers. It could be construed that these Biblical labels indicate different levels of a system, or something similar. What do you say in response Diakonos?

If people receive different rewards might that not also indicate a stratification of a levels-system? The parable of the talents says that different amounts of places of rulership are given as rewards, also indicating the possibility of a system.

What is seen Biblically is various ages with different requirements for God-relationship in each age. This naturally provides a seeing of differences between the individuals who are going to be in heaven and the possibilty of some sort of system.

From the church age alone are seen persons of varying levels of God-involvement: babies, those righteous souls who never heard the gospel but lived right, those who were baptized but never received the Spirit, those born again, those who were martyred. No doubt others will also see other categories.

God is too great in his awesome varied ways to provide all humans sameness of position in eternity. That's not like him at all.

Whatever our role in eternity will be, its not likely that we will sit in our mansion twiddling our thumbs and eating leaves from the tree of life for eternity. It's monthly leaves (who said there was no time in heaven?) are for healing, and whatever we do for the Lord at that time may require a healing. Will it take an eternity of monthly eating leaves to be healed from our life on earth? If angels engage in battles, are wounded, they may require some form of restoration. That all people will assume the same role is not shown but its certain not all are equal in their abilities and logical to assume those with greater abilities will be given roles of a different level than those with lesser abilities. A system of varying levels is very logical to assume. Is it a caste system? I'll let those who know what the caste system is say YEA or NAY.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Unlike others who know exactly what the caste system in India is like, I don't. But funny that - that phrase had also popped into my mind.

Is what is seen of angels like a caste system? We have angels, cherubim, seraphim, warriors, messengers. It could be construed that these Biblical labels indicate different levels of a system, or something similar. What do you say in response Diakonos?

If people receive different rewards might that not also indicate a stratification of a levels-system? The parable of the talents says that different amounts of places of rulership are given as rewards, also indicating the possibility of a system.

What is seen Biblically is various ages with different requirements for God-relationship in each age. This naturally provides a seeing of differences between the individuals who are going to be in heaven and the possibilty of some sort of system.

From the church age alone are seen persons of varying levels of God-involvement: babies, those righteous souls who never heard the gospel but lived right, those who were baptized but never received the Spirit, those born again, those who were martyred. No doubt others will also see other categories.

God is too great in his awesome varied ways to provide all humans sameness of position in eternity. That's not like him at all.

Whatever our role in eternity will be, its not likely that we will sit in our mansion twiddling our thumbs and eating leaves from the tree of life for eternity. It's monthly leaves (who said there was no time in heaven?) are for healing, and whatever we do for the Lord at that time may require a healing. Will it take an eternity of monthly eating leaves to be healed from our life on earth? If angels engage in battles, are wounded, they may require some form of restoration. That all people will assume the same role is not shown but its certain not all are equal in their abilities and logical to assume those with greater abilities will be given roles of a different level than those with lesser abilities. A system of varying levels is very logical to assume. Is it a caste system? I'll let those who know what the caste system is say YEA or NAY.

The Book of Revelation is symbolic.

Don, you are literalizing a prophetic book of the Bible. The saints under the altar aren't existing under an altar for eternity. Leaves for healing the nations aren't literal leaves. Where it is stated that time would be no more, doesn't mean that time ceases to exist. But the prophecy would no longer be delayed.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Plz expand your commentary here because I don't see how this relates to a system of varying levels, kind sir.

I don't see myself as having unique abilities and assume others have similar means.

Do I assume correctly that when you quote "all" that this means that because all humans inherit 'all' that this would exclude the possibility of a system in heaven? Is this what you are saying? That everyone receives all that heaven has to offer doesn't negate the possibilty of a system, in my mind. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Amen.

One enters into the family of the Father Jesus Christ, and the others end up in a Lake of Fire were they are consumed. One group is left out of the the City of the New Jerusalem, the True Israel of God, the Body of Christ, the Eden Restored. Yet, the gates are left open, so they can be grafted back into the Tree of Life if they BELIEVE in the One True Living God Jesus Christ.

.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Someone reading your thoughts might conclude that the new birth isn't creating a exclusive class of people.

.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The Book of Revelation is symbolic.

Don, you are literalizing a prophetic book of the Bible. The saints under the altar aren't existing under an altar for eternity. Leaves for healing the nations aren't literal leaves. Where it is stated that time would be no more, doesn't mean that time ceases to exist. But the prophecy would no longer be delayed.

Thx. nc.

[Amanah]

Don,

Correct me if I'm wrong in trying to summarize your viewpoint:

You see a hierarchy in your Eschatology where believers make it into the new Jerusalem, but unbelievers don't.

You personally believe in one God, Jesus name baptized, holy Ghost filled Acts 2:38 salvation. But also that other "believers" will be in the New Jerusalem.

You see a hierarchy where God is dealing with believers today at their different levels of understanding. Therefore you are making an argument to not discount other believers.

**************

If I'm correctly stating your position. Do you also not think that we should teach and hold all people to biblical standards of salvation and leadership rather than lower the standards to accept their unbiblical understanding?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

.

Don, what am I supposed to do with this post?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Unlike others who know exactly what the caste system in India is like, I don't. But funny that - that phrase had also popped into my mind.

Is what is seen of angels like a caste system? We have angels, cherubim, seraphim, warriors, messengers. It could be construed that these Biblical labels indicate different levels of a system, or something similar. What do you say in response Diakonos?

If people receive different rewards might that not also indicate a stratification of a levels-system? The parable of the talents says that different amounts of places of rulership are given as rewards, also indicating the possibility of a system.

What is seen Biblically is various ages with different requirements for God-relationship in each age. This naturally provides a seeing of differences between the individuals who are going to be in heaven and the possibilty of some sort of system.

From the church age alone are seen persons of varying levels of God-involvement: babies, those righteous souls who never heard the gospel but lived right, those who were baptized but never received the Spirit, those born again, those who were martyred. No doubt others will also see other categories.

God is too great in his awesome varied ways to provide all humans sameness of position in eternity. That's not like him at all.

Whatever our role in eternity will be, its not likely that we will sit in our mansion twiddling our thumbs and eating leaves from the tree of life for eternity. It's monthly leaves (who said there was no time in heaven?) are for healing, and whatever we do for the Lord at that time may require a healing. Will it take an eternity of monthly eating leaves to be healed from our life on earth? If angels engage in battles, are wounded, they may require some form of restoration. That all people will assume the same role is not shown but its certain not all are equal in their abilities and logical to assume those with greater abilities will be given roles of a different level than those with lesser abilities. A system of varying levels is very logical to assume. Is it a caste system? I'll let those who know what the caste system is say YEA or NAY.

Don what do babies do in your Heaven?

Can you answer that question?

What level of communication, or intelligence do they posses after death?

Do aborted or miscarried infants resurrect in physical glorified bodies?