Suits: Guilt By Association

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Bro Jesus was of the wrong tribe. He was of the tribe of Judah not a Levite, they called Him rabbi because He was a teacher, not because He was in some rabbinacal rotation. But you made it sound good, yet He still had not the earthly lineage to teach like that. He did teach because it was granted Him from Heaven to do so. Although He had no earthly qualifications. That's why they marveled at His knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. That's the whole purpose of the Melchezadek reference in Hebrews.

Dude with the Paul thing that's not true either. They had time of fellowship and breaking bread from house to house. But as far while the word was being preached, thats ridiculous to think he was having question and answer sessions with 30 to 50 thousand people. Jesus did but He was God, there's no way Paul did. Like the church of Jerusalem and Antioch were like the size and bigger of Joel Osteens church.

Oh boy...

I never said that Jesus was a Levite. I only explained what I was trying to recall was, it was in reference to the Levites, not Jesus, was my point. Please go back and read it S-L-O-W-L-Y. I was correcting myself.

Now, with regards to Jesus...

Jesus was repeatedly called "rabbi", even by Pharisees (Nicodemus). He was a recognized teacher, although rabbis didn't go through any formal ordination in those times. A rabbi kinda made a name for himself by using his gift of teaching. In some ways the title was bestowed on men more akin to the way the title of "sage" or "guru" is attributed to men informally by their followers today. And clearly Jesus a recognized teacher, for everyone called him "rabbi", and he was indeed permitted to teach in the synagogues and the temple, which means His reputation was established. But it should be noted that Jesus didn't just walk up and take the platform in the temple. He taught in the courts in informal huddles on the temple grounds, as many rabbis did. He wasn't a part of the formal religious institution of His day (scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, etc.).

So, Jesus wasn't taking just taking authority from the established leaders by teaching informally in the courts of the temple. The question of where His authority came from to do such things was a reference to His casting out the money changers the previous day.

Matthew 21:12-27 (ESV)
Jesus Cleanses the Temple
12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. 13 He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you make it a den of robbers.”
14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them. 15 But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant, 16 and they said to him, “Do you hear what these are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read,
“‘Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies
you have prepared praise’?”
17 And leaving them, he went out of the city to Bethany and lodged there.
Jesus Curses the Fig Tree
18 In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he became hungry. 19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside, he went to it and found nothing on it but only leaves. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once.
20 When the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither at once?” 21 And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen. 22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”
The Authority of Jesus Challenged
23 And when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him as he was teaching, and said, “By what authority are you doing these things, and who gave you this authority?” 24 Jesus answered them, “I also will ask you one question, and if you tell me the answer, then I also will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25 The baptism of John, from where did it come? From heaven or from man?” And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘From man,’ we are afraid of the crowd, for they all hold that John was a prophet.” 27 So they answered Jesus, “We do not know.” And he said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Dude with the Paul thing that's not true either. They had time of fellowship and breaking bread from house to house. But as far while the word was being preached, thats ridiculous to think he was having question and answer sessions with 30 to 50 thousand people. Jesus did but He was God, there's no way Paul did. Like the church of Jerusalem and Antioch were like the size and bigger of Joel Osteens church.

Paul taught rabbinically when gathered in small groups.

And you're right, Paul most likely didn't answer a lot of questions when talking to thousands of people.

But that isn't the point here.

They didn't "sermonize" as we do today. Why is that so hard to understand?

Consider Pentecost. Surrounded by thousands in Jerusalem, Peter raised up his voice before the crowed and explained what it was that they were seeing take place. He expounded on the Scriptures and how this was a fulfillment of the promise of the Spirit, and the truth of Jesus being Lord. And in Acts 2:37, men in the crowd fielded the question of what they should do. And Peter launched into what they should do and admonished them of many things, telling them to save themselves from that untoward generation.

So, yes, even in large crowds, questions were fielded, and answered.

I'm not saying that they never gave expository speeches. I'm not saying that they never spoke to a listening crowd. I'm saying that the art of homiletics as we know it is predicated upon rhetoric that is largely based on Aristotelian rhetoric.

There is a distinct difference between the rhetoric employed by preachers today and the more prophetic admonitions and expository preaching found in Scripture.

But, if you want to believe that Peter and Paul, labored over sermons by candlelight, and launched into them with titles like, "Wounds That Never Heal", and presented analogies and metaphors, with four supporting points, and then closed with music, and an altar call... that's your choice.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sorry, you are wrong. Most all Judeans except the very poor had Sabbath clothes they wore each Sabbath. But then you'd know that if you studied to find truth rather than studying to find things to complain about.

I don't doubt that the more well to do probably had attire they wore on the Sabbath. However, there is a difference between the evolution of manners and customs and Biblical commandment. Are sabbath clothes commanded in Scripture?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

But, if you want to believe that Peter and Paul, labored over sermons by candlelight, and launched into them with titles like, "Wounds That Never Heal", and presented analogies and metaphors, with four supporting points, and then closed with music, and an altar call... that's your choice.

No one is claiming they did this.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by n david

No one is claiming they did this.

Straw men everywhere.

[n david]

[berkeley]

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by n david

And he’s in a skirt. Perfect.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

No one is claiming they did this.

That's all I'm saying when I say that they didn't sermonize as we do today. lol

[Esaias]

More references from Aquilapedia?

lol

A, rather than spending all your employer's bandwidth selling freon to Eskimos, why not get out there and do something? Start the First Church of Sermonizers Anonymous and show everyone how it's done.