Christmas is pagan

[shag]

As for me and my house, for the past 15-20 years, I have not allowed a tree into into my home to be fastened upright, decorated with pretty decorations, and put Jesus’ name on it, simply because I feel it is insulting AND wrong to mix paganism with the one true God. And, I believe the customs somehow stemmed from paganism, although I’m not certain EXACTLY how regarding every single detail. As far as “taking back” what’s our Lord’s, from pagan idolatry, if it is His trees, I don’t think He wants me to mix paganism with what’s His, in regard to “taking things back” for His glory. I work in and with trees every single day. I thank God for them, they supply our oxygen and a host of other blessings. They’re his creation, but I refuse to belittle His majesty and our dominion, with mixing what He never desired(decorating or adorning a tree) and then putting His majesty’s name on it.

If it’s popular in the world, it’s likely not pleasing to Him. I want to do what UNQUESTIONABLY pleases Him, and putting His name on an adorned tree, to me is too questionable, especially if we cannot find doing so in scripture.


95% of my friends all do though....


That’s where I stand on Messiah trees...


2 q’s:
Is it questionable to adorn a tree w Messiah name on it?
Is it questionable not to?



Funny thing, I was just now watching the following debate, and what is said at the 8 min mark reminds me of this thread

[JoeBandy]

Originally Posted by Esaias

But what does the BIBLE say?

Deuteronomy 12:30-32 KJV (30) Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. (31) Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. (32) What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

It is expressly forbidden to worship God using pagan rites and customs!

I am not gonna get in this too deep, however, ESAIAS have you noticed all of your argument comes from OLD TESTAMENT LAW?? Also, most of it is out of context.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

OK we are having our annual Christmas bashing.

Yes I agree Christmas is pagan, but can we destroy the works of the devil and turn that which was evil into that which is now good?

Can Christmas be redeemed for the glory of God?

These are just cultural holidays. They have no real spiritual significance so choosing not to practice them isn't a big deal.

Quite a few of these holidays originated in pagan festivals. A lot of our traditions relating to these holidays originated from pagan traditions. As Europe increasingly became "Christian" many of these traditions were redefined to help communicate the Gospel. Try to remember, these people were illiterate. Redefining a number of these pagan customs was instrumental in helping pagan people understand Christian truths. So, as time passed, the meanings and significance of these things changed. But sadly, the hearts of many of those converted masses didn't. It was just institutional Catholic religion seizing their culture. This infuriated many pagan people, so these days became increasingly rowdy and filled with revelry. And a lot of Protestants and Puritans refused the holidays altogether as being Catholic practices.

In America, a lot of these holidays were not originally observed. This was because we were settled by Puritans and Protestants. Many settlers brought these celebrations to our shores and they were dark days of revelry and debauchery. Even Christmas was a dreaded holiday like Halloween bringing crime, rape, and debauchery of every sort. Some communities thought of banning these holidays. However, others decided that if you can't beat them... join them. Communities started hosting community Halloween events, Christmas events, etc. The free market found a market for holiday cards, Christmas seals, gifts, etc., and the American capitalist machine took over to turn these holidays into something more "family" oriented. Coke captured the image of "Santa Claus" and a marketing blitz was launched. Haunted houses, costume parties, and trick-or-treating (as we know it) was sold to the American family as wholesome community events. What many don't understand is that the free market took over and tamed these holidays. The reason why so many civic institutions encourage families to embrace these holidays and turn them into special family events is to counter the revelry and chaos that typically broke out in their wake. Capitalism has been VERY successful at this, even more successful than the Catholic church. In my generation I've seen Halloween go from just pumpkins and card board cut outs in windows to elaborate decorations, lights (almost like Christmas lights), etc. So, in a way, observance of these holidays has an underlying voluntary civic duty aimed at bettering our communities by NOT surrendering these holidays to the drunkenness and revelry that once ruled them. Because so few of us remember the revelry that unfolded in the wake of these holidays, many don’t realize what they are actually advocating when they advocate that we abandon the holidays and just hand them back over to the forces of darkness. We’d see a revival of the crime waves and arson that used to accompany these holidays, especially in rural areas.

As I said before, these holidays really have no inherent spiritual significance. Any spiritual significance they might bring is attributed to them by the observer. So, choosing not to practice them isn’t a serious issue. However, condemnation of our brothers and sisters who do participate does more damage and division to the body of Christ than a mere Christmas tree or Jack-o-Lantern ever could. I look at it like this, I’m in the world, but not of it. I’ll go to holiday functions, participate in the cheer, decorate, and be a part of society, always reminding others to remember the Christian associations historically attributed to these holidays. I do this to as a Christian. And, due to the culture’s “Christianization” of these holidays, many are more open to the Gospel during these times (especially Christmas and Easter) than at any other time of year. Some who typically never attend worship gatherings will attend on Christmas and Easter. Many have been filled with the Spirit and baptized as a result of Christmas and Easter services. And if that works in this culture, I’ll roll with it. As Paul said:

1 Corinthians 9:19-22 King James Version (KJV)
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

I am not gonna get in this too deep, however, ESAIAS have you noticed all of your argument comes from OLD TESTAMENT LAW?? Also, most of it is out of context.

About the Bible
The Bible is the infallible Word of God and the authority for salvation and Christian living. (See II Timothy 3:15-17.)

(from the UPCI Articles of Faith)

I don't know what you believe, but *I* believe the Bible is the sole and final authority for faith and practice. Now, if you don't feel the Bible is authoritative, that's your business.

As for context, my argument is simply an affirmation of what the Bible says on the subject. No verse has been taken out of context, not by me. If you'd like to demonstrate your claims I invite you to do so, because simply saying "you are wrong" does nothing at all but express your personal opinion.

[Aquila]

I talked to a rather polite gentleman yesterday. He participates in Thanksgiving but not the traditional holidays rooted in paganism. I let him talk for a while about this. And he made some good points. However, I asked him about his birthday, apparently he celebrates his birthday! I explained that the early church and the ancient Hebrews didn't celebrate birthdays. I explained how Birthday cakes, candles, making a wish, blowing out the candles, gifts, etc. were all pagan. He seemed to get visibly upset, but kept his cool. He explained why birthdays were different, using all the same reasoning most use to explain why they don't see anything wrong with celebrating Christmas, Easter, etc.

I just found this amusing.

[Scott Pitta]

The days of the week are named after pagan gods. Does using those names make me a pagan ??

The origin of a word has nothing to do with the current cultural observation.

[Pressing-On]

WHEW!! I got my tree up yesterday!! Mercury glass is gorgeous!!!

[Sean]

A word of warning. A customer of mine had a relative get bit by a black widow from a tree lot tree. Ask if they spray the things before dragging the Amelekite in your house.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

WHEW!! I got my tree up yesterday!! Mercury glass is gorgeous!!!

Pics?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by houston

Pics?

Kneeling in front of it?