25 Year Anniversary

[shazeep]

nice.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up

seems like a funny way to present Christ, don't you think? This is a strange reflection. Of course we just take the similarity in the lifted up part, but i tell you there are other reflections presented here, in the analogy of Christ being "lifted up as Moses lifted up the serpent."

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by shazeep

nice.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up

seems like a funny way to present Christ, don't you think? This is a strange reflection. Of course we just take the similarity in the lifted up part, but i tell you there are other reflections presented here, in the analogy of Christ being "lifted up as Moses lifted up the serpent."

Not sure that I am grasping your full point here. But the primary point I see Christ making in this chapter, is the simplicity of being born of the spirit. I think the biggest problem Christians have is understanding that there is nothing they can do to come into the kingdom of God, but believe in Christ.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Not sure that I am grasping your full point here. But the primary point I see Christ making in this chapter, is the simplicity of being born of the spirit. I think the biggest problem Christians have is understanding that there is nothing they can do to come into the kingdom of God, but believe in Christ.

well Gd, i don't think there is anything wrong with that, as far as it goes, but there are a lot of people saying they believe in Christ, and a lot of other people saying that those people really don't, and we're all saying it to each other. Notice that? And it is Christ Who gives a description of both:

17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; 18they will pick up snakes; if they should drink anything deadly, it will never harm them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will get well.”

22On that day many will say to Me, Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?'

which is not even the best reflection of These, i saw an even more striking One, but i've let It get away from me, but anyway, These will serve to make the point. If i may term your reflection up there a..."Christian" one, may i suggest that if you are intending to recruit others to your set of beliefs, that are not Christian, that you are not speaking their language? So, you are in...a foreign place, the world, on a mission, and you are speaking in tongues, without an interpreter?

Now, since you are not doing that right now, that does not apply of course, since right now you are talking to other Christians, at least ostensibly; some few who desire to know Which Passage they fit in, while most of the rest--the vast majority--already...know Which they are in, yes? So we don't even need to address them, right, because you cannot teach someone something that they already know. So for the rest, i tell you that there is another reflection of that passage, and i bet there is even a word for people who believe in Christ "lifted up as Moses lifted up the serpent." i'll see if i can find it, and we can talk more on this.

Christ's most Scathing indictments were reserved for

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by shazeep

So for the rest, i tell you that there is another reflection of that passage, and i bet there is even a word for people who believe in Christ "lifted up as Moses lifted up the serpent."

Nehushtan

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Nehushtan&atb=v27-2__&ia=web

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Not sure that I am grasping your full point here. But the primary point I see Christ making in this chapter, is the simplicity of being born of the spirit. I think the biggest problem Christians have is understanding that there is nothing they can do to come into the kingdom of God, but believe in Christ.

We are to do much to enter the kingdom, but all of it is a means of ensuring it's not earning heaven by good works. THAT is the issue. ALL of it is related to pointing to the cross as the works that cause us to have salvation. THE CROSS earned salvation alone. Anything the bible says to do, as the angel told Cornelius there were things he must DO, were instructed by Peter in Acts 10, and Saul of Tarsus was also told WHAT TO DO in Acts 9. It was more than just believing.

The real question is the nature of what we do and why we do it.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by mfblume

We are to do much to enter the kingdom, but all of it is a means of ensuring it's not earning heaven by good works. THAT is the issue. ALL of it is related to pointing to the cross as the works that cause us to have salvation. THE CROSS earned salvation alone. Anything the bible says to do, as the angel told Cornelius there were things he must DO, were instructed by Peter in Acts 10, and Saul of Tarsus was also told WHAT TO DO in Acts 9. It was more than just believing.

The real question is the nature of what we do and why we do it.

We are to do nothing but have faith in order to enter the kingdom. Romans 4:1-6, Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 2:9. We are to do much after we enter the kingdom, but we enter the kingdom by faith.

I am going to say this and I hope it is taken as a complement. You have a way with articulating words. And when you are right, you are right on the money. But when you are wrong you are just as blinded by your traditions as you were when you were in dispensationalism. You come out with arms flailing to get your point across, because you are right and everyone must come to see it like you do.
In many ways you and I are alike in that aspect. Or I should day were, my wife get on me all the time about that, and I began to listen to her and back up and let others have their say, and took time to truly consider other opinions. I might add I did not become of the belief I hold over night, it has been a slow progress of many years.
To put it in simpler terms, I did not just go from being a three stepper to a one stepper over night. The thing is just like full preterism it was after I came to these views that I found that there were many others that believed the same way I did.
All of this has led me to become less confrontational than I would have been 10 years ago. Which is why I don't always respond to many of your posting in the manner you seem to want.

I man not trying to reveal a secret formula for salvation, hidden from the masses for two thousand years. I am only trying to cause people to believe in Christ and the work of the cross and become followers of him. But in doing so I also don't want to cause weaker saints to question their faith and lose their faith.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

We are to do nothing but have faith in order to enter the kingdom. Romans 4:1-6, Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 2:9. We are to do much after we enter the kingdom, but we enter the kingdom by faith.

I am going to say this and I hope it is taken as a complement. You have a way with articulating words. And when you are right, you are right on the money. But when you are wrong you are just as blinded by your traditions as you were when you were in dispensationalism. You come out with arms flailing to get your point across, because you are right and everyone must come to see it like you do.
In many ways you and I are alike in that aspect. Or I should day were, my wife get on me all the time about that, and I began to listen to her and back up and let others have their say, and took time to truly consider other opinions. I might add I did not become of the belief I hold over night, it has been a slow progress of many years.
To put it in simpler terms, I did not just go from being a three stepper to a one stepper over night. The thing is just like full preterism it was after I came to these views that I found that there were many others that believed the same way I did.
All of this has led me to become less confrontational than I would have been 10 years ago. Which is why I don't always respond to many of your posting in the manner you seem to want.

I man not trying to reveal a secret formula for salvation, hidden from the masses for two thousand years. I am only trying to cause people to believe in Christ and the work of the cross and become followers of him. But in doing so I also don't want to cause weaker saints to question their faith and lose their faith.

Not time for more than this response right now...

The way the apostles demanded baptism on the spot tells me it was far more serious an issue than those who don't believe it's part of salvation makes it out to be. None of them demand today on-the-spot-baptism like the apostles did. The Philippian jailor risked his neck to get baptized the same night he believed. He was willing to commit suicide when he learned the prisoners might escape. Then he goes out with them to get baptized that hour????

No one who thinks baptism is not part of falcon would do that. So much more to say. But that's all for now before church.

[shazeep]

so the lesson of Nehushtan is not yet seen then imo, as a belief system, wherein the best thing you might do for a weak one is cause them to question their faith, if it is in Christ "lifted up as Moses lifted up the serpent," that they have been baptized into.

Jesus is dead. iow. How do those three words resonate with you? What do they say to you?

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not time for more than this response right now...

The way the apostles demanded baptism on the spot tells me it was far more serious an issue than those who don't believe it's part of salvation makes it out to be. None of them demand today on-the-spot-baptism like the apostles did. The Philippian jailor risked his neck to get baptized the same night he believed. He was willing to commit suicide when he learned the prisoners might escape. Then he goes out with them to get baptized that hour????

No one who thinks baptism is not part of falcon would do that. So much more to say. But that's all for now before church.

First have a good service, sadly to say I have to work.

As for the apostles demanding baptism on the spot is in question. But that comes from the point of view one reads each passage. Again, no one is questioning the importance of baptism, just where it falls in the scope of when one becomes part of the kingdom of God.

When Peter in the second chapter of Acts preached the gospel to them and accused them of being guilty of crucifying the Lord, it was after that they ask what must we do? Note the addition of the words "to be saved" added by most.

The primary message was in being born of the spirit, receiving the Holy Ghost. The answer was repent. What were they repenting of their sin or crucifying Christ. The bottom line was receiving the spirit, not getting saved.

One must ask did Cornelius get saved (I am beginning to not like that word) inter the kingdom of God, when he received the spirit, or when he was baptized? In the whole message Peter preached that day, not one time did he mention baptism. It was after they received the spirit that he mentions baptism. If Peter was to tell Cornelius things he must do why not preach baptism at the beginning?

When Paul meets up with disciples of John, what was his question? Have you been baptized? No. Have you received the HG? Note to self. Paul did not ask what name were you baptized into. Rather unto what baptism where you baptized. This passage gives us a pretty clear indication that baptism was done as a declaration of belief. They were disciples, who's disciples? Johns. How do we know they were baptized unto Johns baptism. What did they do when Paul told them they were to believe on Christ? Baptized in the name of Christ.

[shazeep]

And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the new wine will burst
the skins; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined.

No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins.

But no one who drinks the old wine seems to want the new wine.