Elephant in the room - accusation of judging - Page 16

shazeep · #**151** 06-01-2016, 11:35 AM

Ah, the old God deceives people with His word, trick.

ok well you say "trick," but "seeing you will not see" is in there for a reason. We have many examples of this in Scripture, so the concept exists even if it does not apply to you. The trick to me is how church becomes your mortgaged building, and God is Love is turned into "they are all lost." What a hideous concept.

shazeep · #**152** 06-01-2016, 11:45 AM

Again, I know you got a weird way of thinking of the word. But tell me what this verse does to your thoughts and how it forms your conclusions about who is saved and lost. And why.

i do not form conclusions about who is saved or lost, Mike. Ever. That is extremely presumptuous, and i think we have amply demonstrated that your conclusions were tripe. You can't even define saved or lost to universal satisfaction, and i can't either. For every verse you point to that "defines" salvation, i can provide another that gives a different perspective. Doesn't this tell you something?

Obviously yes, it does. it tells you that everyone else is lost, and we will all agree with you if we just focus in on this or that one little verse, and of course accept your interpretation of it. Gee, i wonder how we all became in thrall to the state with our eyes wide open? Prolly just another coincidence.

shazeep · #**153** 06-01-2016, 11:48 AM

i see a reflection in "you will contend with them" paraphrased, maybe its "they will contend with you," @ "Ishmael" in Scripture--why would God provide a contender? Because you want to contend, not because contention of this sort is a good thing. Contend for the faith! But that likely means something different for you, i guess...so be it. your heart will be revealed, and you will reap what you sow.

You really cannot talk bible, can you? You have to attack me in every moment you get. All I asked was YOUR opinion and how YOUR faith forms from this passage. But it's MIKE BLUME MIKE BLUME MIKE BLUME.

um, if it helps any, those are pretty much universal truisms, they apply to everyone. Don't judge, and you won't be judged, Mike. You are a pastor, so suck it up, buttercup.

shazeep · #**154** 06-01-2016, 11:54 AM

Wow. Could not take this single post and deal with actual bible, but you just HAVE TO make it about me.

when you can address some Scripture that you have not had too much luck with so far, we might be able to discuss some other Scripture that is easily misinterpreted. I repeat that i think your grasp of Pauline doctrine is great; unfortunately it may be killing you. God is not going to be asking Muslims why they did not accept your doctrine; He is going to be asking you why you condemned them, yet have no witness against them, and why, if you grasp the doctrine so well, you failed so miserably to impart Scriptural truth.

shazeep · #**155** 06-01-2016, 11:56 AM

I looked for nothing. I just wanted to see if a muslim would do what you accused me of doing, and then see how you would react.

oh ya, my bad, no agenda there at all

shazeep · #**156** 06-01-2016, 12:01 PM

Do you believe these verses indicate that people who do not believe they need be saved through Christ are saved? If so, why? If not, why? What does it mean to not believe on Him, and why are they condemned if they do not believe on Him?

Is the Good Samaritan saved, or lost? I have to know your answer here in order to answer your question. Um, we have many other examples, since that one seems thorny for you; how about Lazarus, we read no sanctioned conversion experience for him, a poor Jew; saved or lost? Mothers who actually are saved through childbirth--how are they saved, absent this doctrine of yours? Pick one.

shazeep · #**157** 06-01-2016, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

i see a reflection in "you will contend with them" paraphrased, maybe its "they will contend with you," @ "Ishmael" in Scripture--why would God provide a contender? Because you want to contend, not because contention of this sort is a good thing. Contend for the faith! But that likely means something different for you, i guess...so be it. your heart will be revealed, and you will reap what you sow.

You really cannot talk bible, can you? You have to attack me in every moment you get. All I asked was YOUR opinion and how YOUR faith forms from this passage. But it's MIKE BLUME MIKE BLUME MIKE BLUME.

um, if it helps any, those are pretty much universal truisms, they apply to everyone. Don't judge, and you won't be judged, Mike. You are a pastor, so suck it up, buttercup.

perhaps a more useful answer here is that taking offense so easily is a dead giveaway.

aegsm76 · #**158** 06-01-2016, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

Again, I know you got a weird way of thinking of the word. But tell me what this verse does to your thoughts and how it forms your conclusions about who is saved and lost. And why.

i do not form conclusions about who is saved or lost, Mike. Ever. That is extremely presumptuous, and i think we have amply demonstrated that your conclusions were tripe. You can't even define saved or lost to universal satisfaction, and i can't either. For every verse you point to that "defines" salvation, i can provide another that gives a different perspective. Doesn't this tell you something?

Obviously yes, it does. it tells you that everyone else is lost, and we will all agree with you if we just focus in on this or that one little verse, and of course accept your interpretation of it. Gee, i wonder how we all became in thrall to the state with our eyes wide open? Prolly just another coincidence.

Paul made conclusions.
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Jesus did
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Peter did.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Jude did
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

mfblume · #**159** 06-01-2016, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

perhaps a more useful answer here is that taking offense so easily is a dead giveaway.

I wasnt reacting from any offence. lol. I was pointing out you Have to attack me instead of answer the question. Just answer the question. Attack me all you Like. I don't care.

mfblume · #**160** 06-01-2016, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

I looked for nothing. I just wanted to see if a muslim would do what you accused me of doing, and then see how you would react.

oh ya, my bad, no agenda there at all

Lol. i never said I had no agenda with you in that chat with him. . Say what you will but you failed.