They have no shame

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Rudy

There is a thread on "a list of grace giving churches" if you know of any post them there.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...iving+churches

ah, ty. i know of a great one in SW FL, but it isn't Pentecostal...

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What's with the crops and cattle thing? Because that is what tithing was all about. People earned incomes in the Bible days. There were craftsmen, artisans, carpenters, construction workers, hewers of wood and stone, drawers of water, etc etc etc.

They did not tithe on their income or wages. Only those producing crops or cattle tithed. In fact, the Bible explicitly declares that if a person could not carry the cattle or produce to Jerusalem to pay the tithe, they were to turn it into money (sell the stuff for cash) and bring the cash to Jerusalem.

But they did not give any cash to the Levites or priests! They were to BUY FOOD PRODUCTS and tithe THAT!!!!

God already took into account the concept of cash/coin in relation to the tithe, and he REFUSED TO ACCEPT CASH AND COIN.

What is taught as 'tithing' today simply has no Biblical support. Not that 'tithing' isn't taught in the Bible, but that what IS CALLED TITHING NOWADAYS is simply NOT BIBLICAL TITHING TO BEGIN WITH.

It is also rather curious that tithing was developed during the medieval catholic era as a means of supporting full time bishops and clergy. When it was introduced it was NOT introduced as 'we must obey the Bible'. Likewise, here in the west, tithing was not introduced until the 1870s!! And it too was not introduced AT FIRST as 'we must obey the Bible' but as an ALTERNATIVE to the disappearing sources of income previously enjoyed by churches. It wasn't until later that it was back-engineered into the doctrine.

It really is a new thing. If it was clearly apostolic none of this history would exist. There never would have been various attempts to 'introduce' tithing in Christendom. In fact, the earliest pre-catholic records indicate that ministers were expected to literally 'live of the gospel' meaning they were expected to OWN NOTHING but subsist on the freewill offerings and gifts of whoever was willing to feed, clothe, and house them.

Hardly the way things are today...

In the 20s through the 40s...Here in CA, tithing was not taught. The independent churches were overrun by big organizations(UPC/Apostolic included) that brought with them the doctrine of tithing.

The little churches were pushed aside by preachers in big shiny cars(an old timer I know recalls), and they were know as the 10%ers.

The preachers adopted tithing into their doctrine/creed when they formed their movements.

Indeed it is a new thing.

[Sean]

Preachers are taking a HUGE gamble with their very own salvation, by teaching the doctrine of tithing to N.T. believers.

They think that because their elders "got away with it" then they will too.

How do they know if the elders(that died so far) indeed got away with it though?

Unfortunately, they will have to die to find out the hard way!

[Nitehawk013]

I don't agree that any of them are facing any eternal jeopardy. I do however believe that when the end does come, they will realize how wrong they have been and how much pain and damage they have done to the souls in their care that were deeply hurt by the false doctrine of tithing.

[Sean]

Dont count on them getting a pass though. Many heretics were cursed by the Apostles for much less than teaching tithing.

[Rudy]

Willful deception is nothing to take lightly. There are those who are simply doing it out of tradition.

[KeptByTheWord]

The tithing doctrine has really hindered the church. The folks on here defending the tithes doctrine are almost exclusively ministers who no doubt have their lives built around the income that they get from the tithing doctrine, and I can see where it would be hard to acknowledge the truth that has been presented here.

But if you really want to be pleasing in the eyes of the Lord... try Him.

I challenge each one of you ministers whose income is supported by the 10% tithe.. step out in faith, since you are obviously involved in the work of the Lord... and try the Lord... stop teaching the 10%, and explain to the congregation the error of that doctrine, and instead teach them to give as unto the Lord, and that no mandatory 10% tithe will ever be a part of your church doctrine. Test the Lord... and see what will happen.

Others have done it (Votive mentioned one who did it)... you can too... and just see what the Lord will do.

Maybe the rejection of this doctrine will allow true men of God to rise up who aren't fleecing the sheep, and the church that has been set back by this damning doctrine will rise up again to the glory and power that it was meant to have, like the early NT church had.

You can't out give the Lord. We don't tithe, but we give, and we give wherever there is a need. We give to our sisters and brothers in the Lord. We give to local charitable organizations. We give to our family members, especially our parents. Giving is a way of life for us, and that hasn't changed since we stopped giving the 10% tithe. And God has blessed.

God blesses giving... now that is a principle you can count on! Throw the tithe doctrine out the window, and trust God for the rest. Take the leap of faith. God's safety net of giving will catch you

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by houston

YeRs ago I read a post by a guy named Isaias. It helped solidify my belief that tithing in the NT is not biblical. I haven't seen him around in ages.

Was it spelled "Essaias"?

lol

[J.A. Perez]

According to Malachi chapter 3:8-10

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Just a couple sincere questions....

1. Who paid tithes and offerings in the Old Testament?

2. Who received of that tithe and those offerings?

3. If God didn't physically receive it, then how was he robbed?

Please help me understand...
Thank u in advance!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Doesn't this seem just a tad bit odd to you?

No. It's small. I said, when it grows we're supporting more.