born of water

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist

"For the remission of sins" simply means "in order that your sins might be forgiven". And who forgives sins? The context here is not even orally invoking the name by the baptizer (which he should do) but one being commanded to repent and to be baptized into the authority (name) of the one Peter had been preaching about that God made to be both Lord and Christ. Is not an incantation or word taking away people's sins. It is GOD forgiving sin of those who are obedient to the message because they yielded to the Lordship of Christ by repenting and being baptized.

Is the Name of Jesus we speak an incantation?


in·can·ta·tion noun \ˌin-ˌkan-ˈtā-shən\
: a series of words used to make something magic happen

Full Definition of INCANTATION

: a use of spells or verbal charms spoken or sung as a part of a ritual of magic; also : a written or recited formula of words designed to produce a particular effect

[Sean]

When you speak the name of Jesus, are you speaking incantations?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
"For the remission of sins" simply means "in order that your sins might be forgiven". And who forgives sins? The context here is not even orally invoking the name by the baptizer (which he should do) but one being commanded to repent and to be baptized into the authority (name) of the one Peter had been preaching about that God made to be both Lord and Christ. Is not an incantation or word taking away people's sins. It is GOD forgiving sin of those who are obedient to the message because they yielded to the Lordship of Christ by repenting and being baptized



So the authority of the name of Jesus is only in the thought process?

Do you pray for the sick like that also(silent prayers)?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
"For the remission of sins" simply means "in order that your sins might be forgiven". And who forgives sins? The context here is not even orally invoking the name by the baptizer (which he should do) but one being commanded to repent and to be baptized into the authority (name) of the one Peter had been preaching about that God made to be both Lord and Christ. Is not an incantation or word taking away people's sins. It is GOD forgiving sin of those who are obedient to the message because they yielded to the Lordship of Christ by repenting and being baptized




You have implied that the VERBAL use of the name of Jesus here is an INCANTATION.....



in·can·ta·tion noun \ˌin-ˌkan-ˈtā-shən\
: a series of words used to make something magic happen

Full Definition of INCANTATION

: a use of spells or verbal charms spoken or sung as a part of a ritual of magic; also : a written or recited formula of words designed to produce a particular effect

[Sean]

This is a classic example of your former beliefs still blended in your present beliefs

[Sean]

This is known as Assemblicostal

[Sean]

This is the name I love to "incant".....

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Originalist

"For the remission of sins" simply means "in order that your sins might be forgiven". And who forgives sins? The context here is not even orally invoking the name by the baptizer (which he should do) but one being commanded to repent and to be baptized into the authority (name) of the one Peter had been preaching about that God made to be both Lord and Christ. Is not an incantation or word taking away people's sins. It is GOD forgiving sin of those who are obedient to the message because they yielded to the Lordship of Christ by repenting and being baptized.

I partially agree with this post. It is by God's authority that we are saved and not a magic baptismal formula. Peter had a revelation of the identity of Jesus Christ and upon the revelation of Christ's identity the church would be built. By invoking the name of Jesus you are acknowledging who it is that saves you. When I pray to God I don't have to using some generality of terms such as god or lord, but I can speak his name Jesus".

I know him personally and I enjoy invoking the name at every occasion and I don't want to do anything to belittle its importance. The way to be baptized is described by the apostles many times, so do it like they did. We don't have to break down the reason or logic behind it, but we should obey it. I don't want to stand before God for sending people astray for my use of vain philosophy. Its not about how eloquently I can describe the method be behind the madness as they say, but your obedience to the one who has saved you. Faith exists many times without understanding.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

This is the name I love to "incant".....

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Brother, why did you create so many mini-posts about this? One post would have sufficed.

Concerning Acts 4:12. You cannot separate a name from the one bearing that name. Peter is simply saying that there is only one authority that can save men, Jesus Christ.

My use of the word "incantation" was used only to stress that there is nothing about the oral invoking of the name of Jesus that takes away sin. HE takes away sin, the one who bears that name.

If a king issues a decree, it becomes law the moment he issues it, not when it is read aloud to his subjects.

[Hesetmefree238]

Sean, I think where we disagree is in our perspective of water baptism. You view water baptism as being the wheel in the middle of the wheel in new testament salvation. I believe the thing that everything revolves around is faith in the Saviour who shed his blood for our sins. Of course, this faith must be accompanied with calling on the name of Jesus in repentance, and that is to be followed by water baptism according to the new covenant plan. I've already said, I don't view water baptism as optional, it's an essential part of the new covenant, and the sin issue isn't dealt with in its finality until one goes through the waters of baptism in Jesus name.
However, I see everything from repentance, to water baptism, to being filled with the Holy Ghost revolving around placing our faith in Jesus. By faith we look towards Calvary trusting that Jesus's blood is sufficient to save us from our sins. I believe that God showed us that this faith is the one most essential element and is what is most important in Acts 10 when he filled Cornelius's household with the Spirit, because they believed in Jesus and called on his name. Peter confirmed this in

Acts 15:8-9 "And God which knoweth the hearts bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us. And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

He's saying God bare witness to their faith in Christ and he responded by filling them with the Holy Ghost. He forgave them of their sins, There was an application of the blood, there was a purifying (according to Acts 15:9) of the inner man, and they entered into the Holy of Holies being filled with the Spirit. They became Sons of God and the life of Christ came to reside in them. However, they were incomplete until they were baptized in Jesus name. I'm not going to try to define what incomplete may or may not mean. I think this is a mistake we make trying to determine exactly who has what at what point in their experience with the Lord. I do feel comfortable saying they were incomplete, because there is sufficient scripture that tells us that water baptism is part of the new testament plan of salvation. (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, St Mark 16:16)