Alienated Church: Father's and Mother's day

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Ture, Parx, ture.......

Lol

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Prax, I dont hate ya buddy! I think it is an important reality that those in leadership need to be exposed to. Not everyone fits when you have things like mothers day and fathers day events.

I had some boys in my youth group that didnt have the kind of fathers that make you proud.

Fathers Day was a hard day for them. A very hard day. I spent a lot of time with my arm around a shoulder with a crying kid because it was fathers day.

Our church does recognize moms and dads on the respective days. However, our pastor does something very interesting. He also recognizes those men and women who may not be parents but are "moms and dads" to kids in the church. that expands that circle a great deal. and draws more people into the moment.

we dont do a whole focused service. just a few minutes of recognition. The rest of the service is about Church. We may not be perfect but you have to recognize that peoples expriences are vast and for some there is a lot of hurt associated with events that for others are all warm and fuzzy....


Love ya Prax!

Wow. Thats awesome

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Some people are so selfish they can't even give honor and respect to other on their special day. My parents are gone so mothers day and fathers day are hard for me, but I give honor to others on their special day.

Today it seems that everything is "about me" We live in a a VERY selfish self centered generation.

Some people are so pharisee minded their own self centeredness blinds them to see that nobody said we should not honor fathers and mothers.

Wow

[Arphaxad]

I know women who are both mother and father to their kids,I guess they should just suck it up and go too, even through they get no recognition for doing double duty.

[Renee29]

We recognized them at my church.

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

I know women who are both mother and father to their kids,I guess they should just suck it up and go too, even through they get no recognition for doing double duty.

[Pressing-On]

I feel alienated when every occasion, i.e., Easter, Christmas, Birthdays, Anniversaries, Father's day, Mother's Day, etc., etc. is about the pastor and his wife - money, cards, gifts.

I typed this post a few days ago and then deleted it, but since it is still buggin me...

An interesting question was asked in regards to I Samuel 23:9. The text (KJV) is talking about David asking for the ephod. Why would David have the ephod when it was Abiathar's position?

It appears, in the Interlinear, that it is really saying, "Bring the priest."

So, the comment was, "Yes, bring the priest, bring the preacher."

I was thinking about the scripture, Ephesians 2:14, "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;"

Seeing that the five-fold ministry is taught and important to the NT church, I wonder how much authority is the pastor actually supposed to have? And his wife?

Being a former Catholic, it appears to me they have the same mindset. The Catholics setting up much of their rituals like the original Tabernacle, i.e. Robes, incense, host, confession to Priest, etc., and the NT preacher's (not all, but many) seem to have the same mindset as needing to go before God for us.

But, if the middle wall is broken down and we have access to God ourselves, where is the line? I have prayed for my own healing and have been healed. I have been used in the gifts, I have had dreams and prophesied over people. In prayer, God has given me direction.

It seems some of the honor that is due goes a little too far, IMO. In that, I mean that I see many people, through the years, not trying to develop their own walk with God because, the underlying teaching is that the preacher/pastor is in authority over just about everything.

That is my bitter rant (), as it has always bothered me.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I feel alienated when every occasion, i.e., Easter, Christmas, Birthdays, Anniversaries, Father's day, Mother's Day, etc., etc. is about the pastor and his wife - money, cards, gifts.

I typed this post a few days ago and then deleted it, but since it is still buggin me...

An interesting question was asked in regards to I Samuel 23:9. The text (KJV) is talking about David asking for the ephod. Why would David have the ephod when it was Abiathar's position?

It appears, in the Interlinear, that it is really saying, "Bring the priest."

So, the comment was, "Yes, bring the priest, bring the preacher."

I was thinking about the scripture, Ephesians 2:14, "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;"

Seeing that the five-fold ministry is taught and important to the NT church, I wonder how much authority is the pastor actually supposed to have? And his wife?

Being a former Catholic, it appears to me they have the same mindset. The Catholics setting up much of their rituals like the original Tabernacle, i.e. Robes, incense, host, confession to Priest, etc., and the NT preacher's (not all, but many) seem to have the same mindset as needing to go before God for us.

But, if the middle wall is broken down and we have access to God ourselves, where is the line? I have prayed for my own healing and have been healed. I have been used in the gifts, I have had dreams and prophesied over people. In prayer, God has given me direction.

It seems some of the honor that is due goes a little too far, IMO. In that, I mean that I see many people, through the years, not trying to develop their own walk with God because, the underlying teaching is that the preacher/pastor is in authority over just about everything.

That is my bitter rant (), as it has always bothered me.

Something happend about 25 years ago that has stuck with me all of these years. Our church youth group had done a musical that was very well received at our church and we got invited to perform it at a church in a city about 80 miles away. I was part of the tech crew and two of us needed to sit on a front row to one side of the platform / stage for some important reason I can't remember (we were cueing cast members about something with hand signals). A few minutes before the perfomance began a young minister in the church came up and informed us we would have to move, that this pew was reserved for the ministers and their wives.

When I explained to him why the two of us needed to be on that specific pew I was sure he would say no problem. Instead he made it clear we had to move, that they were going to sit there.

I thought at the time and still do that not only was that extremely rude to visitors at their church but showed an attitude that was certainly not Christian like. I found out later that the senior pastor of this church emphasized "honoring" ministers and stressed their importance, etc.

Church people washed his car, mowed his lawn, etc, etc, because they were taught that is what they were supposed to do, not spontaneously.

That whole concept is so contrary to the Bible it makes me sick. I am blessed that I have never had a pastor that had this attitude. Of course if I had he would not have been my pastor long!

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by CC1

Something happend about 25 years ago that has stuck with me all of these years. Our church youth group had done a musical that was very well received at our church and we got invited to perform it at a church in a city about 80 miles away. I was part of the tech crew and two of us needed to sit on a front row to one side of the platform / stage for some important reason I can't remember (we were cueing cast members about something with hand signals). A few minutes before the perfomance began a young minister in the church came up and informed us we would have to move, that this pew was reserved for the ministers and their wives.

When I explained to him why the two of us needed to be on that specific pew I was sure he would say no problem. Instead he made it clear we had to move, that they were going to sit there.

I thought at the time and still do that not only was that extremely rude to visitors at their church but showed an attitude that was certainly not Christian like. I found out later that the senior pastor of this church emphasized "honoring" ministers and stressed their importance, etc.

Church people washed his car, mowed his lawn, etc, etc, because they were taught that is what they were supposed to do, not spontaneously.

That whole concept is so contrary to the Bible it makes me sick. I am blessed that I have never had a pastor that had this attitude. Of course if I had he would not have been my pastor long!

I have not paid a dime to apostolic royalty for decades in the form of tithes and offerings, and never will again.

Just watch videos of services from Texas's East district and you will still see apostolic royalty sitting on the platform behind the main speaker during any given sermon nodding their "approval" during every "point!" given.

[rgcraig]

PO and CC1, I couldn't agree more with both of you!

I do not like the "armor bearers" fad either - someone assigned to the pastor/pastor's wife that jumps at their ever need.

And, one of my BIG pet peeves is 20 minutes into the service (praise and worship), the pastor and his "men" file in and sit on the platform. Such an elitists showing.

I've seen Mother's Day services turn into "crown" the Mother Queen (pastor's wife) ceremonies.

Do they deserve honor, yes. But, whole services devoted to them along with trips that not one saint in the church could ever afford to go on - no.

That's my little rant.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by CC1

Something happend about 25 years ago that has stuck with me all of these years. Our church youth group had done a musical that was very well received at our church and we got invited to perform it at a church in a city about 80 miles away. I was part of the tech crew and two of us needed to sit on a front row to one side of the platform / stage for some important reason I can't remember (we were cueing cast members about something with hand signals). A few minutes before the perfomance began a young minister in the church came up and informed us we would have to move, that this pew was reserved for the ministers and their wives.

When I explained to him why the two of us needed to be on that specific pew I was sure he would say no problem. Instead he made it clear we had to move, that they were going to sit there.

I thought at the time and still do that not only was that extremely rude to visitors at their church but showed an attitude that was certainly not Christian like. I found out later that the senior pastor of this church emphasized "honoring" ministers and stressed their importance, etc.

Church people washed his car, mowed his lawn, etc, etc, because they were taught that is what they were supposed to do, not spontaneously.

That whole concept is so contrary to the Bible it makes me sick. I am blessed that I have never had a pastor that had this attitude. Of course if I had he would not have been my pastor long!

I can certainly relate to what you are saying here and could also share many similar stories. I'd have to hesitate doing that as it really affects my faith.

My main purpose in bringing up the subject is that it bugs me more than honoring fathers on Father's Day. I think that we should always focus on the strong family unit no matter the mistakes and bad examples we have before us. A strong family makes for a strong church which makes for a strong community.

However, to turn every occasion into a celebration of the ministry has always turned me off. And maybe coming out of Catholicism, it bugs me more, I don't know.

I was really wondering if anyone has done a study, have we discussed this here, because I don't really know how much honor we are supposed to bestow on the ministry. I didn't ever notice Jesus or the Disciples demanding the attention and honor that the present ministry displays.

I don't come to church for the ministry, never have and never will.