In our area the local pastors work hand in hand. One pastor from the next town over comes to our church once every three months and preaches a service. 6 pastors in my state have gotten together and created a seminar group called LID Lifters. They hold a seminar once a month open to all that teaches leadership in the real world using biblical principals.
Scotty I am glad for you, really I am. And if I visited your town I'd love to visit your church. I believe what you say. Just please believe what I say about where I live. It is just not happening here. Our two closest churches do not fellowship one another at all. One pastor has preached against the other church over the pulpit... People rushed to bring the CD to the pastor who was talked about. That pastor says the slandering I pastor is prolly lost anyway so what's it matter what he says... One of that pastors sons was a pastor in a local town... lost his church after it was discovered that he was sleeping with a couple of different married women in his church... His father used his influence to make sure that after a short stint as a truck driver, a divorce and a remarriage he got back in the ministry. You can always tell when he is coming to preach because it's the only time a sermon on not judging others is preached... I am not making this stuff up.
I love my church family. I am broken hearted that like Aquila says most will see me as backslidden when I leave even though I will still be a HG filled believer. I started this thread not to bash the UPC but because I really thought someone might come on and say hey 'try XYC church' they believe a lot like that... Or ABC church is close but doesn't have this or that on your list... I do not control where a thread goes but I have been honest to say the reasons i will not change my mind about the UPC when asked.
In alot of places one either has to go a denominational church,or a Oneness church that is overbearing. I know one community that is surrounded by baptists but the only Oneness church in it teaches wristwatches are a sin,what choice do people have in such places ?
__________________
People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
I think that if I ever heard that from any pulpit, I would have to get up and walk out. That is totally occult doctrine because he is giving glory to hair
instead of to Jesus Christ.
When I heard a visiting preacher refer to Christ's church as a "corporate" entity, I was upset enough to leave at that moment. It was all I could do to stay till the end of service. Corporate is a man-made entity. When Christ's church is referred to as corporate, there is something really really wrong.
We were UPC members during the bulk of the 80's, and attending a pretty conservative church BUT we got out before the rise of RR and LS so never really heard of the great majestic power of a woman's uncut hair. Now that isn't to say that uncut doctrine wasn't an absolute necessity for salvation there -it most assuredly was, there just wasn't any mystical qualities attributed to it, yet.
That's the greatest problem I've had in the UPC churches I've attended. There are no house churches or "open" home fellowship groups. No format for body ministry, confession of sin, prayer, sharing, or providing for one another's needs. Essentially we all met in the same building two to three times a week to listen to a sermon and pay our dues to ensure that the pastor didn't loose the building or his salary.
Frankly, the vast majority of what I've learned about the Lord came from my own personal devotions and study. The sermons were not expository either. Most were on something like, "The Four Steps to Victory" at best. Most of the time it was a rant against gays, television, and not meeting the standards. When I began attending a Southern Baptist church that was a network of house churches the teaching was VERY expository. In the larger gatherings on the weekends we are covering every verse of the Gospel of John. I've attended two house churches. One is covering every verse in Hebrews and the other the book of Acts. Frankly, I've never experienced learning this much in church. Those who present the studies are well versed in the language, culture, customs, timing of events, etc. It's WONDERFUL. I do miss "Holy Ghost" filled worship sometimes. But again, the center of my spiritual life and worship is my home. The church doesn't "identify" me. Christ and my experience in Him does. So I still fellowship and talk to members from the UPCI church I used to attend. Most count me "backslidden" but that's because they don't believe one can have a personal relationship with God.
A friend of mine once went to her pastor to "ask" if she can start up a bible study during the week when there was no service. His answer was that <paraprased> "that's not a good idea because it might get out of hand". In other words...no. Get out of hand? How so?
I couldn't believe it! A pastor not wanting the people in the church body to gather together to study the bible, pray and seek the Holy Ghost on their own
time. I thought that was scary that he wants the people to be dependent on his teachings rather than to study and hear from God themselves.
Scotty, Prax, Amanah. I do want to say one more thing to you...
Your posts have given me some hope. One of my biggest questions is how truth could produce such rotten fruit...
Just hearing Amanah's gentle spirit which comes through loud and clear and hearing you describe your church Scotty has made me know that it doesn't have to. For that I appreciate that you took the time to share. Thank you.
Last edited by Titus2woman; 01-19-2012 at 10:35 AM.
A friend of mine once went to her pastor to "ask" if she can start up a bible study during the week when there was no service. His answer was that <paraprased> "that's not a good idea because it might get out of hand". In other words...no. Get out of hand? How so?
I couldn't believe it! A pastor not wanting the people in the church body to gather together to study the bible, pray and seek the Holy Ghost on their own
time. I thought that was scary that he wants the people to be dependent on his teachings rather than to study and hear from God themselves.
Only ministers licenced with the UPC were allowed to teach at our old church. At our most recent church we have been asked and have taught seeker bible studies. I think it is presumed that doctrine will not be discussed in any way that does not support the church's mission, which is as it should be in my opinion.
Bless you Amanah, but your words are in vain in threads such as these. Even though your thoughts are dead on. The services T2W are describing are not mainstream UPC.It is not another religion she seeks, but the degrading of an existing one.The broad brushing of the majority by the few experiences. As you, Hoovie, Prax and myself have stated, these descriptions are not the common UPC. The more this thread goes on you see a turn from an honest sincere question for guidance to a same ole same ole UPC bash thread. The final evidence of that being when T2W responded to Prax's post using the term "your people". You compound this with the rebuttles that she is now more decerning than everyone else because she sees through the preaching and doctrine where as the rest of us are brainwashed and don't know any better and you end up with the typical UPC basher thread.
Like I said, yes there are some churches and pastors that are as she has described and there are some that are even worse, I have been to a couple. But it is not mainstream UPC. I can make an equally long list of wonderful things taken from many UPC churches. But if you create a thread for that, it usually ends up looking like this one.
Ahhh...Scotty, but for T2W, it is mainstream. It is all she knows in her area. She has nothing else to go by. The churches in her area pretty much follow UPC teachings, but they do it their way. It's like the little child growing up in a third world country making bricks all day long. The child does not know that in other countries, there is a better life. The child doesn't know that there is food, shelter with modern conveniences and education. For T2W, the UPC in her area IS the broad brush. You and others who say it is not common in UPC, do not live in the "poverty area" analogy I just posted. You live in the land of the plenty. Looks like UPC should send missions to some of it's churches in areas of the USA.
Basher thread? Why is it that those who have no idea what it is like to live under a mean, controlling pastor always end up accusing those who is trying to express their feelings call them bashers? You are trying to take away her right to express her feelings in hopes that some of the "leadership" will listen and want to help make their churches to be true sanctuaries. It's an awful feeling when you must work out in the world everyday and then go into a "sanctuary" for rest only to find it just as bad as the world except a different face and a different set of rules.
We were UPC members during the bulk of the 80's, and attending a pretty conservative church BUT we got out before the rise of RR and LS so never really heard of the great majestic power of a woman's uncut hair. Now that isn't to say that uncut doctrine wasn't an absolute necessity for salvation there -it most assuredly was, there just wasn't any mystical qualities attributed to it, yet.
And you know Randy Wayne, what is so upsetting about this magic hair garbage is that the people have been taught to "obey" whatever their leadership says. If they say it, it must be true. No sound scripture to back up the claims, but don't you dare say it isn't so. The divide line between pastor and laity is pushed into our faces. "I am the preacher, you are the saint. You are not trained to know what the bible means in such cases." I've heard that line too many times.
Only ministers licenced with the UPC were allowed to teach at our old church. At our most recent church we have been asked and have taught seeker bible studies. I think it is presumed that doctrine will not be discussed in any way that does not support the church's mission, which is as it should be in my opinion.
A simple bible study does not need a licensed minister. They are not studying UPC doctrine, but are studying the Gospels or the Epistles to gain deeper understanding than what can be preached from the pulpit in an hour sermon.
Linear Mode
