The Pre-Existence Of The Son - Page 16

Aquila · #**151** 11-11-2011, 01:57 PM

So stop this silliness about the Son. Yes, the Son has always been with God. And yes... the Son was begotten in a given moment in time. Both are absolutely correct. Because we are dealing with Him who is the eternal stepping into time.

Prax, and all, God beheld your faces and loved you... before He said, "Let there be light!"

Aquila · #**152** 11-11-2011, 02:10 PM

Sorry to flip tables guys.... but this argument is downright silly when one considers God's eternality.

When our elders said that the Son existed "in the mind of God" before time began... they didn't mean that Jesus was merely a thought, an imaginary figment in God's mind that was going to be. They meant that the Son actually EXISTED as a living reality in the mind of God (meaning from the perception of the eternal) from eternity.

We are dealing with transcendence beyond our comprehension here. A transcendence that makes the deepest of theological opinions sound like kindergarten nursery rhymes. Man knows NOTHING about God. Only the Spirit itself can search the deeper things of God, revealing them to a man. As I have walked in the Spirit I have seen how all of history exists in a single nano-second before God... and yet that nano-second is infinitely expanded before God at the same time in that past, present, and future are before Him, void of the meaning we have attached to them.

A Trinitarian sees one dimension of this and makes a claim to ultimate truth.
A Oneness believer sees one dimension of this and makes a claim to ultimate truth.

And God laughs at them both!

Praxeas · #**153** 11-11-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

God beheld and experienced the crucifixion before the world began. The Son was always with God... yet one could also say that the Son didn't exist prior to the incarnation.

He beheld it? How does that make the Son existing with the Father? That sounds more like the Logos in the mind of God idea
God also beheld us we can say, does that make us all Eternally existing with God'?

Praxeas · #**154** 11-11-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Did you know that God can have one hand in the present, one hand in the past, and be gazing at events yet to come as though they are a living reality before Him... and shape reality into whatseover He desires?

All that means is God Eternally exists and transcends time. That says something about God. that does not say something about the Son's existence

Aquila · #**155** 11-11-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

All that means is God Eternally exists and transcends time. That says something about God. that does not say something about the Son's existence

God stood with the Son on the Mount of Transfiguration from eternity past Prax....though to us it was an event that would only one day happen in time. There is no such thing as time when dealing with the internal apsects of God's nature. God isn't bound by time as you and I perceive it.

Aquila · #**156** 11-11-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He beheld it? How does that make the Son existing with the Father?

Oh ye of little faith. God LIVES in every second that ever was and will be NOW. Therefore from an eternal perspective God has, and will always... exist in union with the Son.

Quote:

That sounds more like the Logos in the mind of God idea
God also beheld us we can say, does that make us all Eternally existing with God'?

First, God is bigger than the Logos garbage. God laughs at Logos theology too.

And yes... we are all eternally existing before God. God knew you before time began Prax... not as a seer or psychic who peers down through time to see you... but as one who existentially beholds you as a present reality before Him. As with Jeremiah... God knew him and ordained him a prophet to the nations before he was born.

Aquila · #**157** 11-11-2011, 02:25 PM

And Prax... even as we speak... to God... YOU are seated with Christ in Heavenly places. Time is merely the revelatory unfolding of God's reality as perceived by temporal beings. To God... it's all before Him... and it's all behind Him.

Michael The Disciple · #**158** 11-11-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Aquila,

John begins his Christological view NOT with Father and Son but Logos and Ho Theos..word and God. It was only after the Logos was made flesh that John introduces Father and Son

So God created "by" the Son when God created by the Logos.

I must agree.

BrotherEastman · #**159** 11-11-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

God stood with the Son on the Mount of Transfiguration from eternity past Prax....though to us it was an event that would only one day happen in time. There is no such thing as time when dealing with the internal apsects of God's nature. God isn't bound by time as you and I perceive it.

I agree

That is why we can say God is the same yesterday, today, and forever......and since this is the case, we can also say God exists in the past, present, and future.

Steve Epley · #**160** 11-11-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

But that means the person known as George Bush DID exist. He just was not the President yet...so that actually goes against your view that the Son did not exist. It supports my view that the Son did exist as God (not as the Son)

He existed but NOT as President Jesus existed NOT as Son but as God.