...and if you would have posted, during the Haggard problem", "I know a lot of white preachers with this problem but it's kept on the down-low", this forum would have exploded and the server would have crashed. You would have been vilified beyond recognition.
I'm still shaking my head. I can't believe what I've read. Shocking.
I doubt it, rarely are whites playing the race card. It is basically from the black crowd, and normally just from a few who are really goading the population for their own sakes. Specifically Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and men like that. For if the "civil rights" issues went away, they'd have to get a real job.
I truly believe racism is ALMOST dead in this country. I have in Texas and have NEVER in my life seen any real racism. It is almost a dead issue, what drags it up again and again is some folks make EVERYTHING into a race issue. I say get a life.
Now, since we live in a country and post in a forum where every opinion is examined, and taken out of context if at all possible, let me give you the flip side of my opinions.
First off, the church I go to is EXTREMELY diverse. There are other AFF members who attend church with me and know this to be the case. The church is essentially split between white and blacks 50/50. We have a small hispanic minority also. This mix generally shows on the platform also. So first off, I have NOTHING against black (African Americans if they prefer, I'm just using the lingo of the thread) people at all. I don't have any issue going to church with them, in fact, I think that is one of the greatest stregths of our church is our diversity. I believe the black man can live just as godly as the white man. The gentile as the Jew, the Greek as the barbarian, in Christ there is no difference. None.
Secondly, posters like Tstew show forth their excellent character with each post, and a balanced conservative view. personally, I'd like to see him and others posting more here. JD is a good guy, I strongly disagree with his political slants, but minus that, I have nothing against him. I really don't see any racial problems here on AFF. If any of that were legitimate, I'm sure that would be one of the few things that would still get someone banned on AFF.
Third, historically, slavery was wrong. It was beyond wrong, it is the worst blight on american history, the most regrettable sin this country has ever committed (I believe it to be worse than abortion, simply because at least in abortion babies are innocent as to the crime/murder committed against them-though these things are both deplorable, I also think the treatment of Indians is right behind slavery, just awful). I believe (as Lincoln) that the Civil war, and the high death toll and damage done was the punishment God allowed for slavery. The crimes that were committed during the civil rights movement were terrible, ungodly, and those committing such thing are worthy of whatever punishment they receive, rather human or divine. And I will add this there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between the civil rights movement and this gay agenda of today which seeks to align itself as the modern civil rights issue. That is pure garbage. In the instance of blacks the Bible teaches the equality of men, and the constitution says all men should have the right to life,liberty, and pursuit of happiness. The civil rights issue was a MORAL issue, it was about doing the right things, which is to put ALL men on equal footing. The homosexual agenda is about getting us giving the stamp of approval to someones filthy sin which is against society and nature. A completely different issue, and I will say this, if I were black, I would be extremely offended that the homosexuals were playing off of the abuses of my own people for their selfish benefits.
Those things said, in many instances this country has bent over backwards, great men like MLK gave their lives for the oppertunities many blacks are given, and so many of them squander those oppertunities, as Bill Cosby has rightly pointed out. Nevertheless not all have squandered the oppertunities there are many college professors, doctors, lawyers and now even the president is black. I have no problem with a black president, I just wish it was Colin Powell rather than Obama , but thats another thread.
Therefore, though I make this statement "some folks make EVERYTHING into a race issue. I say get a life." The context of that statement is those who make an issue of of non-issues.
Now then, if someone legitimatly crosses the line, Bob Feller, Don Imus style, go after them, cost them their job, make them a public disgrace, fine. But when Rush Limbaugh says Donovan McNabb is overrated (when he has proven to be) just leave it alone. If we say Obama has no business in the white house because he wants to socialize and bankrupt America (either by design/agenda, or more likely incompetence, or perhaps both) its not a black/white issue, its a policy issue. McNabb isn't a black white issue, its a football issue.
Ok, I'm stepping off my soapbox....
(until Mr. Smith goads me, as he's known to do. )
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
The Bishop didn't say he was completely innocent at all. He said that he was not the man that they're saying he is. He did not categorically deny that any of this happened. I hope I'm wrong (seriously) but this just seems like he is leaving way too much wiggle room. I am personally aware of this type of behavior among some black preachers. This on the "down-low" behavior has affected far more than we'll ever know. I am not painting with a broad brush, I am only speaking from what I have knowledge of. I know this is a minority who engage is this behavior, but it is NOT behavior that his church folks are clueless about. Maybe clueless regarding him, but not the life style itself.
I truly hope he is innocent, but from everything I've seen so far, I predict that it will come out that the allegations are true. At least he didn't do the Ted Haggard, "I don't know this man" shuffle.
I say give 'em all lie detector tests and see how they come out. If it was me and I was accused of anything like this, I would be willing to do that and make it public if the accusers would as well. I am really saddened by all of this.
This is what Ms Smith can't understand It sure is not a generalization.
This statement nullifies everything in your extremely long post. I read that and my ears plugged.
Perhaps I'm misinformed, I'm speaking from my experience. I lived in the south (Texas) all of my life. I lived in and attended Fort Worth schools. I moved out to the country after marriage (but still close to the metroplex). Throughout all my years in school, all my years in the workforce, and all my years in the community with the one exception of hearing one of friends grand parents say something deroggatory about black people when I was in high school (he was about 75 at the time) I have never seen it.
I've seen people in a hostile enviroemnt (such as a street fight and the such) called the "N word" but I've also seen hispanics, whites, and asians called alot of things not kosher for this forum, normally this was in the moment of fury, not someone calculated racial scheming trying to hold a certain minority back.
I was born in 1981, so my experience only goes back to about '87, I don't remember much of anything before then. All I'm saying is that living in the deep south, and in the inner cities, I have never seen a very big problem with racism. Maybe Dallas is different that Mobile,AL or Atlanta,GA, I don't know, but like MOW, I'm simply sharing my opinion from experience.
But, those things said, I don't even feel like I've really posted on AFF, until Mr. Smith questions me.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Here's an article in the NY Times - the term down-low is popular in the black culture. Churches in this area are recognizing it's becoming a problem in their churches and are addressing the issues. They are teaching their young people that just because the down-low rappers sing about it doesn't make it so.
Are there gays in other organizations - of course!!! However, I'm not sure other organizations are ready or willing to address the problem straight on like some of these others are.
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
The Bishop didn't say he was completely innocent at all. He said that he was not the man that they're saying he is. He did not categorically deny that any of this happened. I hope I'm wrong (seriously) but this just seems like he is leaving way too much wiggle room. I am personally aware of this type of behavior among some black preachers. This on the "down-low" behavior has affected far more than we'll ever know. I am not painting with a broad brush, I am only speaking from what I have knowledge of. I know this is a minority who engage is this behavior, but it is NOT behavior that his church folks are clueless about. Maybe clueless regarding him, but not the life style itself.
Smith is unwilling and unable to accurately quote some one. That would mean cut and paste.
This is what Ms Smith can't understand It sure is not a generalization.
Saying you're not painting with a broad brush is not evidence that you are indeed not painting with a broad brush. Making this a problem with black preachers is not only wrong in my opinion, it flies in the face of a great percentage of the stories that break about this sort of abuse in churches. I just didn't understand the need for the distinction.
Either way, I'm not attempting to hang anyone with this.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Perhaps I'm misinformed, I'm speaking from my experience. I lived in the south (Texas) all of my life. I lived in and attended Fort Worth schools. I moved out to the country after marriage (but still close to the metroplex). Throughout all my years in school, all my years in the workforce, and all my years in the community with the one exception of hearing one of friends grand parents say something deroggatory about black people when I was in high school (he was about 75 at the time) I have never seen it.
I've seen people in a hostile enviroemnt (such as a street fight and the such) called the "N word" but I've also seen hispanics, whites, and asians called alot of things not kosher for this forum, normally this was in the moment of fury, not someone calculated racial scheming trying to hold a certain minority back.
I was born in 1981, so my experience only goes back to about '87, I don't remember much of anything before then. All I'm saying is that living in the deep south, and in the inner cities, I have never seen a very big problem with racism. Maybe Dallas is different that Mobile,AL or Atlanta,GA, I don't know, but like MOW, I'm simply sharing my opinion from experience.
But, those things said, I don't even feel like I've really posted on AFF, until Mr. Smith questions me.
If MOW would have said, "I am personally aware of this type of behavior among some preachers", this thread would have died 10+ pages ago. But he didn't, did he. He inserted one key word in there that makes this a really big issue, and frankly, I think it's the worst thing I've ever seen on AFF.
As far as your other observations.....the mind is too boggled at the moment to even know what to say. Keep smokin' what you're smokin', I guess, because it's an interesting racism-free planet you live on. Wish I was there with you.
You excuse horrible incidents as "Moments of fury" so I guess it was ok in "moments of fury" when blacks were lynched repeatedly in the south by the KKK, or when crosses are burned, or when my black doctor has been stopped now over 40 times because they thought he stole his Mercedes, or when D-I schools simply will not hire black head coaches, or when the University of Chicago found that whites are 8 times more likely to be called for a job interview than blacks with identical qualifications....."Moments of fury", all of them. Sure.
Here's an article in the NY Times - the term down-low is popular in the black culture. Churches in this area are recognizing it's becoming a problem in their churches and are addressing the issues. They are teaching their young people that just because the down-low rappers sing about it doesn't make it so.
Are there gays in other organizations - of course!!! However, I'm not sure other organizations are ready or willing to address the problem straight on like some of these others are.
The "down low" issue is simply a reflection that the black community, as a whole, is far less accepting of outright homosexuality than some others. This results in some people who have those "tendencies" not coming out like some others. This is not something that was started because of problems in churches in particular.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
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