Thank God for Miracles!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by pelathais

What is it with Texas highways and the constant need for "divine intervention?"

I was going to visit Texas later this fall but I think I'll just stay away for a while.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'll try again.

God did not make that man go after another tagent when Esther's niece's car got away from him. Esther prayed and God saved them from harm. The drunken man is the one who intentionally went after someone else. God's saving of one is not the cause of the demise of another. God didn't force that drunken man to ram into another car.

Only God knows all of the particulars and how things will play out in the larger scheme of life. And I trust and believe that He is good. I don't have all the why this or why that, but there is nothing wrong with Esther being thankful to God for answering her prayer. And that Esther would be accused of murder or thinking her prayers were superior to those of others, or that God loves her more is something that you all are reading into what she wrote. Making false assumptions and attributing false motives/attitudes about Esther even after she tried to clear up the false assumptions is wrong.

Once again people who are all about the grace of God lack grace toward others. I've been seeing alot of this lately. The more they preach grace, the less they show of it. They have a gripe about a certain doctrine or belief and God forbid you that you unintentionally cross them up on it! They'll chew you out and spit you out just as quick as any legalistic ultracon would.

There was never anything that was wrong with Esther being thankful for the safe return of her family members. I am certain that no one here wanted them to return any other way than safely.

It's just when you post something like that on an open Internet forum where the majority of people hanging out are a bunch of wannabe philosophers (like myself!) you should expect some inquiry and examination of your post.

When the examination happens, don't respond angrily or defensively. Certainly, one must refrain from replying with something like: "DON"T YOU BELIEVE????"

That's just gonna open the flood gates.

We all should be thankful, and I am certain that we all are thankful that the carnage wasn't worse. But we should not relegate the Presbyterians to a lesser status in the kingdom just because some of them were killed. And, this event certainly doesn't indicate that we OP people have a more direct line to God than other believers. Another poster pointed out the loss of family members on the highway by some of the most prominent preachers in our fellowship.

Mizzie, you have now expressed the complexities of this issue. It is a deep and sobering issue to think about. No one should be offended when such complexities are explored.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by pelathais

No. It represents just how I read the comments. The fact that Esther followed up her comments with several BOLDED and ENLARGED posts professing her faith to be superior to everyone else's substantiates my perceptions.

What's the matter with you? Can't you read? Do need me to draw a picture for you because you obviously are lacking the intelligence to read the thread?

There. What is your reaction to that? And, why should my reactions to Esther's and Mizpeh's posts be any different?

LOL I'm beginning to believe you, frog, and some of the others on here have an agenda. Maybe you're in cahoots just to raise the number of posts on this forum. I don't know. But I don't think you really believe some of the things you've said on this thread.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

When I lived in Austin, I was driving on 2222. It was raining that day. I heard a voice as though the person was in the passenger's seat say, "Move into the other lane."

I was in the left-hand lane and moved into the right hand lane. It was the corner turn where 2222 passes over the Colorado River. A white, long-bed truck was careening out of control, sliding sideways and if I had not moved to the outside lane, he would have hit me and pushed me down the cliff into the Colorado River.

That was divine intervention. God saved my life that day.

Originally Posted by Falla39

A good many years ago, a group from the church were going to the airport to pick up one of the ladies' son. He was coming in from Germany, from being in the service.

After entering the freeway, I felt it would be okay to pick up speed. As I began to pick up speed, it was as if something spoke to me, "Ease off, ease off". Not knowing just what was going on, I let up on the accelerator.

Moments later a very large mobil unit like they use for going around from place to place, giving free mammograms, blood tests, etc., had a blowout and came skidding across three lanes, from left to far right, a short distance in front of us. It stopped on the shoulder of the freeway. I believe if I had not eased off the accelerator, we would have been in the path of the unit as it skidded from left to right, out of control.

When I heard a loud noise and saw it going across, I just started calling on a name, THE NAME which is above every NAME!


Falla39

I love these two stories. I can even believe these are stories of divine intervention. However, there is a key difference in them when compared to Esther's. No one died in these stories. That is why I haven't said one negative word about these.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sarah

LOL I'm beginning to believe you, frog, and some of the others on here have an agenda. Maybe you're in cahoots just to raise the number of posts on this forum. I don't know. But I don't think you really believe some of the things you've said on this thread.

We all have an agenda. What is yours? By the way, are you in cohoots with esther and mizpeh? Anyways, I don't think you really believe some of the things you said in this post.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by jfrog

We all have an agenda. What is yours? By the way, are you in cohoots with esther and mizpeh? Anyways, I don't think you really believe some of the things you said in this post.

I wouldn't say that I'm in cahoots with Esther and Mizpeh. Although I'm pretty sure I read the same bible they do.

jfrog, there are many scriptures that let us know that God wants us to ask things of him. You know that. And I'm the first one to say that he doesn't always answer just the way we want him too. I've gone through a lot of heartache in my lifetime because God didn't let things happen the way I wanted them to. I still trust him, tho. And hindsight is 20/20. He has been faithful to me.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sarah

I wouldn't say that I'm in cahoots with Esther and Mizpeh. Although I'm pretty sure I read the same bible they do.

jfrog, there are many scriptures that let us know that God wants us to ask things of him. You know that. And I'm the first one to say that he doesn't always answer just the way we want him too. I've gone through a lot of heartache in my lifetime because God didn't let things happen the way I wanted them to. I still trust him, tho. And hindsight is 20/20. He has been faithful to me.

I wouldn't say Pel and I are in cahoots either. Although we seem to share many of the same opinions. There are many scriptures that tell us to ask God. In fact, I have no problem with Esther having asked God for her families protection. What I have a problem with is claiming that this particular prayer was answered and God did actually protect them in such a manner that someone else who wouldn't have died did so as a result of God's action.

It is our belief that Esther's prayer was not answered. It is our belief that Esther had not totally thought through what she was saying before she said it. This is excusable. I'm sure we all have done that before. However, she insisted, along with others that it was in fact God's doing that her family was spared. We attempted to show the folly of such a claim by showing its implications: "God choose which family died when he could have chose no families to die" and "Esther by praying was involved in God choosing the other family to die."

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I wouldn't say Pel and I are in cahoots either. Although we seem to share many of the same opinions. There are many scriptures that tell us to ask God. In fact, I have no problem with Esther having asked God for her families protection. What I have a problem with is claiming that this particular prayer was answered and God did actually protect them in such a manner that someone else who wouldn't have died did so as a result of God's action.

It is our belief that Esther's prayer was not answered. It is our belief that Esther had not totally thought through what she was saying before she said it. This is excusable. I'm sure we all have done that before. However, she insisted, along with others that it was in fact God's doing that her family was spared. We attempted to show the folly of such a claim by showing its implications: "God choose which family died when he could have chose no families to die" and "Esther by praying was involved in God choosing the other family to die."

God's ways are not our ways, frog.

Let me tell you a story. I don't suppose a day has gone by that I haven't prayed for my children since the day they were born. In spite of that, our 26 year old son was killed during an accident several years ago. He was with his best friend, who was unhurt. He and his family were and ARE good friends to our whole family. Why was my son killed and the other man not? I can't answer that.....but I do trust God.

I can almost guarantee you that the friend's mom thanks God daily that her son is alive and well. And all the while, grieving for our son....she loved him dearly. Was she involved in God choosing my son to die and hers live, as you seem to think Esther was in praying for her niece? I'm sure my friend prays for her children daily also.

Maybe I'm not understanding just what you all are trying to explain here. Maybe I am, as Pel says, just not intelligent enough to comprehend...lol

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Sarah

God's ways are not our ways, frog.

Let me tell you a story. I don't suppose a day has gone by that I haven't prayed for my children since the day they were born. In spite of that, our 26 year old son was killed during an accident several years ago. He was with his best friend, who was unhurt. He and his family were and ARE good friends to our whole family. Why was my son killed and the other man not? I can't answer that.....but I do trust God.

I can almost guarantee you that the friend's mom thanks God daily that her son is alive and well. And all the while, grieving for our son....she loved him dearly. Was she involved in God choosing my son to die and hers live, as you seem to think Esther was in praying for her niece? I'm sure my friend prays for her children daily also.

Maybe I'm not understanding just what you all are trying to explain here. Maybe I am, as Pel says, just not intelligent enough to comprehend...lol

Please don't insinuate that somehow a family of four being burned alive in a car is God "Having His way." One of the easy copouts that Christians frequently use is, "Well, it must have been God's will." Not everything that happens in this world is God's will. In fact, there are many things that have happened that are in direct contradiction to God's will and often, there are often victims when God doesn't have HIS way.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Please don't insinuate that somehow a family of four being burned alive in a car is God "Having His way." One of the easy copouts that Christians frequently use is, "Well, it must have been God's will." Not everything that happens in this world is God's will. In fact, there are many things that have happened that are in direct contradiction to God's will and often, there are often victims when God doesn't have HIS way.

I certainly don't believe that everything that happens in this world is God's will, Mr Smith. But I do believe that when a child of God prays, 'all things work together for good.......'