What is the purpose of Hell?

[Aquila]

Ephesians 1: 9-11. Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

It is God’s will, according to his good pleasure and purpose, that in the fullness of times He gathers ALL things in one in Christ.

Colossians 1: 16 and 20. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Christ made peace through the blood of his cross, that by him ALL things might be reconciled to himself.

Acts 3: 20 and 21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Christ will return that he might bring the restitution of ALL things, and this is what was spoken by God by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the beginning of the world.

John 1:29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jesus took away the sins of the WORLD, not just the church or a select 1% of humanity.

I John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 12:47. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world

John 4:42. Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

First John 4:14. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Christ is the propitiation for the sins of believers, but not believers only, but also the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Jesus is the Savior of the World. Satan wins NOTHING and NO ONE.

Hebrews 7:25. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Jesus ever liveth to make intercession for all men. This means that his intercessory work never ceases… not even after death.

Romans 11:26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

ALL Israel shall be saved, not a one will be lost.

Titus 2:11. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

The grace of God that brings salvation will have appeared until ALL men. Those who never heard on this earth will hear again in the hereafter. Those who rejected him on this earthly sod will have that grace appear to them at some point in the hereafter.

Romans 11:32 and 36. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen

God concluded Israel in unbelief, that he might have mercy on ALL mankind. This is because all things created are for him, through hi, and all things are to glorify him forever.

Ephesians 4:10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Christ ascended that he might fill ALL things.

First Corinthians 3:15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Mark 9:49. For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

God’s judgments are fire…they are purifying and though souls suffer great loss, they shall be saved yet so as by fire.

I Corinthians 15:26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. The very state and condition of death will be eradicated. All will experience life. Death’s cold hands will hold no one in defiance to our Holy and merciful God. If a single human soul were to remain in a state of death or spiritual death, death would still very well exist and still very well be a reality to that soul and all souls who beheld him.

I Corinthians 15:22-28
{15:22} For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. {15:23} But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. {15:24} Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. {15:25} For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. {15:26} The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. {15:27} For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. {15:28} And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

As in Adam ALL die without exception, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive without exception, but every man in his own order. Christ was the firstfruits of the resurrection. Soon those of us who are Christ’s will be raised to life at his coming. Then the end will come when Christ will have delivered up the kingdom to God, all authority and rule will be subject to Christ. Christ will reign until he has brought all enemies under his rulership. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death, the very state and condition of death will be vanquished. This means all who were held in the grip of death (both physical and spiritual) will be brought into life by the blood of the lamb. Then shall the Son be subject to God that God might be ALL in ALL.

Christ didn’t die on the cross to save a sliver of mankind. Christ died to plunder Satan and redeem ALL men. And that’s exactly what he will do… Satan wins NOTHING.

Child of God, have you lost a loved one who didn’t know God? Are you troubled at the prospect that God will torture their souls forever? Know this, our God is loving and just. And yes, you will one day see them again in Heaven, reconciled by the blood of the Lamb. Both you and they will look back at the cross and realize that Jesus indeed paid it ALL.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Child of God, have you lost a loved one who didn’t know God? Are you troubled at the prospect that God will torture their souls forever? Know this, our God is loving and just. And yes, you will one day see them again in Heaven, reconciled by the blood of the Lamb. Both you and they will look back at the cross and realize that Jesus indeed paid it ALL.

So you accepted UR now, or are you still just being devil's advocate for it? lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

So you accepted UR now, or are you still just being devil's advocate for it? lol

I've accepted it as a strong possibility. It makes a lot of sense to me. I've always been troubled by Hell... what would be the purpose of God tormenting the vast majority of people HE created forever and ever? Universalism reconciles (no pun intended) this. I will not say that it's a doctrine that I'd teach behind a pulpit or that I'd advocate for in my ministry. For me, it's more of a "hope" or a "possibility". I know a woman who's grandmother passed away not knowing the truth. Her grandmother was a wonderful woman and she couldn't reconcile in her mind why God would torment her forever. It posed a serious hurdle for her in regards to trusting God. She couldn't trust someone who could do such a thing. She was very close to her grandmother and with tears explained that while she wants to go to Heaven, her eternity will not be blessed if she knows her grandmother is screaming or horrified agony endlessly. I shared with her that's how I would feel about my son should something ever happen to him. I told her that while I don't have all the answers, and indeed those we love may be tormented endlessly forever.... we have to also understand that God is a loving God... and if there is a way to save them... I have no doubt that He will. I encouraged her that she doesn't know the mind of God and that she shouldn't give up all hope of ever seeing her grandmother again. I shared a little bit of this "possibility" with her and she wept with tears of joy. She said that she never thought God could or would ever be so loving... so she too hopes that it's so.

It's just a comforting hope brother Blume. God may very well torment people endlessly forever... but I leave room for grace to win over all men should God choose to do so. By the blood of Christ, God would be justified in having mercy on any he should choose to have mercy upon. I feel more comfortable leaving it in the hands of God and reminding myself of a "hopeful" possibility.

God bless.

[easter]

Thank You for all that information.Thing is...
I don't feel right in my spirit about this teaching.When my son died(HE IS SAVED) I believed in soul-sleep.I was raised Baptist and soul-sleep is NOT a teaching of the Baptist.I guess I came up with that on my own.My 19 year old son died a year ago this month.Well when he died I needed to know and I mean needed to know if he was in his grave or in Paradise.After I finished an indepth study on soul-sleep versus already in Paradise.There is no way that soul-sleep was right.Now I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to the word of God.Maybe even closed minded because I don't change a belief when it comes to God's word.
Same thing with this,there is a little bit of doubt in my spirit that causes me to even consider studying your suggestion that Hell is not eternal.So I will do my own study and if I feel in my spirit that the study is complete then I will arrive on what I believe about Hell.The Holy Spirit is the best at leading us to the truth about God's word.
thanks on the scripture.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by easter

Thank You for all that information.Thing is...
I don't feel right in my spirit about this teaching.When my son died(HE IS SAVED) I believed in soul-sleep.I was raised Baptist and soul-sleep is NOT a teaching of the Baptist.I guess I came up with that on my own.My 19 year old son died a year ago this month.Well when he died I needed to know and I mean needed to know if he was in his grave or in Paradise.After I finished an indepth study on soul-sleep versus already in Paradise.There is no way that soul-sleep was right.Now I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to the word of God.Maybe even closed minded because I don't change a belief when it comes to God's word.
Same thing with this,there is a little bit of doubt in my spirit that causes me to even consider studying your suggestion that Hell is not eternal.So I will do my own study and if I feel in my spirit that the study is complete then I will arrive on what I believe about Hell.The Holy Spirit is the best at leading us to the truth about God's word.
thanks on the scripture.

You're welcome. My goal wasn't to convince anyone as much as it was to lay a case for what I believe to be a very provocative and possible theological conclusion regarding Hell beyond eternal torments and the notion of annihilationism.

While you feel hesitant to believe it yourself, can you see better as to where I was coming from?

[Aquila]

Here is a very interesting passage from a book titled, Is Hell Eternal or Will God’s Plan Fail?, by Charles H. Pridgeon: (my apologies for the choppy copy job)

There are only three chapters in the Bible that distinctly mention “the Lake of Fire and
Brimstone.” They are Rev. 19, 20, and 21. In order to have them clearly before us we will
quote each passage:
Rev. 19:20, “And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought
miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast,
and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning
with brimstone.”
Rev. 20:10, “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and
brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and
night for the ages of the ages” (literal).
Rev. 20:13-15, “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hades
delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to
their works. And death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Rev. 21:8, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and
whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake
which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word
“brimstone” or sulfur defines the character of the fire.
The word theion translated “brimstone” is exactly the same word theion which means
“divine.” Sulfur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to
fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and to consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they
burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228) one is spoken of as purifying a goblet
with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from theion is theioo, which means to hallow, to
make divine, or to dedicate to a god. (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897
Edition.)
To any Greek, or to any trained in the Greek language, a “lake of fire and brimstone”
would mean a “lake of divine purification.” The idea of judgment need not be excluded
(see Chapter on The Judgments of God). Divine purification and divine consecration are
the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning
of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it.
“The Lake of Fire” does not appear in Scripture until the introduction to the Millennium,
altho many theologians send the wicked there now. Satan is not there yet. There is not a
single Scripture that teaches that Satan is confined either in Hades or in the Lake of Fire
now. He is not utterly cast out of the heavenlies yet, and many of his angels and demons
still have access there (Eph. 6:12). He and they are to be cast down at the time of the
Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:9,10). The demons that possest the Gardarene 's swine prayed
that they might not be cast into the abyss (Luke 8:31, literal). They evidently were not
yet confined there.
Toward the end of the age called the Millennium, Satan and his helpers are to be cast into
the Lake of Fire and Brimstone and tormented there “day and night” for the rest of the
millennial Age. (This Age, as we have shown, probably lasts far longer than the thousand
years. The saints reign one thousand years.) Satan also will be tormented in the next age
which is the great final age. We have seen in the Chapter on The Ages, that these two ages
comprise “the ages of the ages.”
The word “torment” needs study. In the New Testament the same word is used of one
“sick of the palsy, grievously tormented (Matt. 8:6). It is used of the disciples' ship in
Galilee, and is translated “tossed with waves” (Matt. 14:24). It is translated by the word
“toiling” in Mark 6:48. It is translated by the word “vexed'” in speaking of Lot (2Pet.
2:8). It is translated by a word that means “birth-pains” (Rev. 12:2). In the other
Scriptures it is translated by the word “torment” or “tormented.” The original idea of the
verb is “to put to the test by rubbing on a touchstone.” Then it means “to question by
applying some test or torture to discover whether true or not.” The original idea was to
test some metal that looked like gold to find whether it was real or not. It also signifies
“to torture in order to extort a confession.” The meaning and usage of this word
harmonizes with the idea of divine purification and the torment which is the test to find
whether there has been any change or not in the sufferer. Through the hidden, loving
purpose of God, every pang of torment will be a birth pang; and the grace of God will not
be absent--and as He says, “Behold, I am making all things new” (literal). He will leave no
spot in the whole universe unrenewed. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue . . .
confess” (Phil. 2:10,11, literal). The ages of the ages come to an end. “Then cometh the
end” (1Cor. 15:24-28). Time ceases and eternity begins. There will be no ''day and night''
in eternity. The suffering lasts only while there is “day and night” (Rev. 20:10).

Anyone have any thoughts they’d like to share regarding the author’s conclusions?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Anyone have any thoughts they’d like to share regarding the author’s conclusions?

Sounds appropriate for the great Creator and Lord of All to finally redeem all of His creation. The cosmos is His masterpiece, works of art can appear very messy and without order until the Artist has completed His work.

We should not judge a matter before its time, many unbelievers including the great Richard Dawkins judges the cosmos as unworthy of an all powerful God. Many believers judge the chaos as evil and corrupt and in danger of eternal rejection by the Creator.

The Master is not yet finished with His masterpiece.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I've accepted it as a strong possibility. It makes a lot of sense to me. I've always been troubled by Hell... what would be the purpose of God tormenting the vast majority of people HE created forever and ever? Universalism reconciles (no pun intended) this. I will not say that it's a doctrine that I'd teach behind a pulpit or that I'd advocate for in my ministry. For me, it's more of a "hope" or a "possibility". I know a woman who's grandmother passed away not knowing the truth. Her grandmother was a wonderful woman and she couldn't reconcile in her mind why God would torment her forever. It posed a serious hurdle for her in regards to trusting God. She couldn't trust someone who could do such a thing. She was very close to her grandmother and with tears explained that while she wants to go to Heaven, her eternity will not be blessed if she knows her grandmother is screaming or horrified agony endlessly. I shared with her that's how I would feel about my son should something ever happen to him. I told her that while I don't have all the answers, and indeed those we love may be tormented endlessly forever.... we have to also understand that God is a loving God... and if there is a way to save them... I have no doubt that He will. I encouraged her that she doesn't know the mind of God and that she shouldn't give up all hope of ever seeing her grandmother again. I shared a little bit of this "possibility" with her and she wept with tears of joy. She said that she never thought God could or would ever be so loving... so she too hopes that it's so.

It's just a comforting hope brother Blume. God may very well torment people endlessly forever... but I leave room for grace to win over all men should God choose to do so. By the blood of Christ, God would be justified in having mercy on any he should choose to have mercy upon. I feel more comfortable leaving it in the hands of God and reminding myself of a "hopeful" possibility.

God bless.

Ok. Just wondering. There is always annihilation. But when it comes to these issues, if they were true, the bible would have stated them much more plainly. So I simply do not focus on the issue. But I noticed you seemed to go much further with it recently than the last time we both chatted about it. I have to admit, it scares me as a deception. I am firm about that conviction. But I respect your sincerity and thoughts.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Ok. Just wondering. There is always annihilation. But when it comes to these issues, if they were true, the bible would have stated them much more plainly. So I simply do not focus on the issue. But I noticed you seemed to go much further with it recently than the last time we both chatted about it. I have to admit, it scares me as a deception. I am firm about that conviction. But I respect your sincerity and thoughts.

Annihilation has the same problems though. A God who proved incapable of influencing His creation for their own redemption… when claiming he loves them. It also postulates that God is love… yet this love becomes hatred and destruction for sinners. He commanded us to forgive 70 times 70… yet He cannot bring himself to do so. For me Annihilationism gives death the ultimate victory. Paul said that death would be destroyed. This means there can be no more death, physical death or spiritual death. Death will be absolutely eradicated and vanquished. As long as one remains in a state of death (physical or spiritual) death exists. As long as one remains in the grave, remains annihilated, remains burning in torments in the second death… death’s cold hands remain unclenched and victoriously holding it’s captive. There will be no more death. Period. There is only life. God had a plan from the foundations of the earth to save the world…and God wins. God wins. God wins. God never fails.

I think the Bible states it quite clearly.

John 12:32. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Philippians 2: 10-11. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Colossians 1: 16 and 20. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Acts 3: 20 and 21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

I John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Psalms 86: 9. All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.

We do well to say that this is a “hope” and nothing more. We do not know the mind of God. However, even should such a thing prove to be true… the nature of eternal punishment through ages and ages until a soul is completely rid of “self” should leave us in reverence and fear of a Holy God who will exact punishment… a fearsome punishment.

[Aquila]

Still the question remains...

If souls are endlessly tormented forever in Hell... what purpose does that serve? And knowing that the vast majority of mankind will suffer this fate (included many that we love dearly)... where can a believer find true joy that isn't based on religious platitudes or a selfish vision self's attainment of salvation?