But how do you "inform" folks of the offense-- the ones who genuinely don't understand how something like this can be so offensive?
How do you convince the Murdochs of printed media that is just isn't worth their time and money to thrive on racially offensive stuff that can almost be hidden as something else?
You first have to make sure they know that their opinion (whatver it is) has no power over you and that you will not lose sleep no matter what they say or print. Otherwise, you get all upset and bothered for days and they are laughing all the way to the bank.
I think that it is cool to use things like this to foster discussions with people you know, but I wouldn't go on a crusade to convince the world and Murdoch of anything. In the day we live in, very few people are stupid enough to print something absolutely and blatantly racist. They're not going to use the n-word and say lynch Obama (although those do exist). This leaves everything kind of subjective and in the grey area, therefore convincing anyone of anything will usually be a waste of time and cause more trouble than good.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
You first have to make sure they know that their opinion (whatver it is) has no power over you and that you will not lose sleep no matter what they say or print. Otherwise, you get all upset and bothered for days and they are laughing all the way to the bank.
So true...
There are definitely still racists in our midst although I do feel that they are in the minority.
The thing is this... these people become a non-issue when we deem them a non-issue. When we don't even notice them anymore then they lose their impact on society.
When idiots have to be idiots in a corner and don't get the satisfaction of the hoopla then they die alone in a corner telling each other how right they were.
But how do you "inform" folks of the offense-- the ones who genuinely don't understand how something like this can be so offensive?
How do you convince the Murdochs of printed media that is just isn't worth their time and money to thrive on racially offensive stuff that can almost be hidden as something else?
There is a natural desire to see that they "get theirs" when people offend.
I think moving beyond that mentality deals the biggest blow.
If someone is a racist and puts something in a paper and there is no reaction... what is their accomplishment?
If the KKK decides to parade down Main Street and no one shows (not even to protest) what is the result?
The result is that they feel the emptiness of their cause. But when hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands show up... even in protest... they can go home and pat one another on the back about how productive their action was.
When no one shows up anymore... they have already been defeated.
Let ignorance be ignorant.
Let hate hate alone.
The loudest statement of all is this... you no longer affect me. It doesn't affect my day to know that you are a hateful ignorant racist bigot. I have better things to do... like mow my yard.
At that point... and not before... they lose their power.
At that point... and not before... they begin to die.
Is it not possible that there are people who are so past those days that this did not cross their mind?
I am almost 32 years old and while my American experience has been OVERWHELMINGLY positive, I have been exposed to racism and recognize when I see it in it's blatant form. When I saw that cartoon, NO ONE had to explain to me what it "meant"-- I already knew.
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
Seeing the cartoon without all the hoopla this thought would not have crossed my mind.
Have you ever been around a person or group of people that have made statements that would imply you are less than a human, simply because of your race? What you are failing to recognize is the historical aspect of this cartoon.
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
But... one can rest assure... all of those who had not lived a life where the implications of certain references were not known through the scope of experience their life had offered will know the implications now.
That is not a bad thing.
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
I think the reaction did more to salt wounds than the cartoon would have ever done without the reaction itself.
Honestly, what would you expect? This cartoon was quite blatant and the fact that it was a cartoon means that it was making light of it-- another aspect to the offense.
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
And... if the person or the paper is a racist then one would expect an apology that would not feel genuine.
They have an opportunity, even still, to right the wrong and to prove otherwise. It is not like "TIME", "Washington Post", "WSJ" or other reputable print media companies have the accusation of racism leveled at them everyday. If they have ever been accused of that, they took care of it right away.
The NY Post's apology was half-hearted and thus not genuine.
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
On the flip side... if the person or paper intended no racist overtones whatsoever and were totally caught off guard by the reaction. That person or paper would then offer an apology for something they did not do to quell the loud and undying dissent. Apologies for things one did not do tend to not sound genuine either.
This is where there is a disconnect-- they were not caught off guard. In fact, it is established that they have printed "questionable" media in the past. It just so happens that this time, they were so offensive on so many levels and at the center of their offense, race is the issue.
The dissent should not die.
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
But when people believe you are guilty and will stand for nothing short of an apology, even if there was no wrong doing, then what else is a person or paper to do?
I, like thousands more, contend that this is not the case for this situation.
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
In reactions like this one there is no room allowed for the possibility that the person or paper have been judged and found guilty wrongly.
At the bare minimum, this is a very bad case of journalistic irresponsibility.
However, the cheap shots at Sharpton implies that they "knew" there would be others who would be offended and they tried to downplay their offense.
The NY Post KNEW EXACTLY what they were doing.
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
There must be an apology put forth whether they are wrong or not.
That's the decent thing to do. When I met Sherri and Renda and DeaconBlues and CoonSkinner, the last thing on my mind was offending them. One, I'm not the offending kind of guy and two, I use my real name on this forum. I am a real person, these are real people. Why ruin my name being ignorant to them?
So then if I accidentally offend them and I am informed, I won't try to justify it, I'll simply apologize-- for their sake and mine.
This is the DECENT thing to do, and there are plenty decent folks who do not have the Holy Ghost!
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
These things lend themselves to a corresponding response that seems insincere because one is, generally, insincere when apologizing for something they did not do.
I disagree with this. If you offend someone accidentally, you are usually apologetic because it wasn't your intent and you just didn't know.
If your offense is not accidental, then your apology is insincere.
It is established that the NY Post's apology was insincere.
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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
So... either the person or paper is openly, blatantly and grossly racist or they have been falsely accused.
The latter will never be considered.
The former is, apparently, a given.
It's not a given here. The NY Post just doesn't care to clear their name by giving a sincere apology.
In fact, it appears that they revel in controversy and offense. It is unfortunate for them in my eyes that they chose to make the history of the Black experience in America the object of their mockery-- all for the sake of money.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Aside from the cartoon, Eric Holder intensified this nation's reconciliation efforts. How very ignorant of him! He is nothing more, IMO, than another Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and Oprah who will not let anything die.
The first African American to hold the office of Attorney General of the United States and he brings his bitterness with him.
You first have to make sure they know that their opinion (whatver it is) has no power over you and that you will not lose sleep no matter what they say or print. Otherwise, you get all upset and bothered for days and they are laughing all the way to the bank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
So true...
There are definitely still racists in our midst although I do feel that they are in the minority.
The thing is this... these people become a non-issue when we deem them a non-issue. When we don't even notice them anymore then they lose their impact on society.
When idiots have to be idiots in a corner and don't get the satisfaction of the hoopla then they die alone in a corner telling each other how right they were.
I agree with the sentiments of both of you.
But when we ignore crime, does it go away?
And is there any truth to the statement that those who forget history are "cursed" to repeat it?
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Aside from the cartoon, Eric Holder intensified this nation's reconciliation efforts. How very ignorant of him! He is nothing more, IMO, than another Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and Oprah who will not let anything die.
The first African American to hold the office of Attorney General of the United States and he brings his bitterness with him.
Oprah is not in the same category as Sharpton and Jesse Jackson at all-- not by a long shot. C'mon now....
What is the cause of your criticism of Holder?
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Aside from the cartoon, Eric Holder intensified this nation's reconciliation efforts. How very ignorant of him! He is nothing more, IMO, than another Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and Oprah who will not let anything die.
The first African American to hold the office of Attorney General of the United States and he brings his bitterness with him.
PO, I agree that we have to be wise with how we handle issues, but the argument will be made by many that things are simply not dead...that as you hear stories or read things when people can be anonymous and speak their minds you realize how alive some things are with some people.
Ultimately, I am of the opinion that the older generation on both sides are a product of their experiences. I honestly can imagine what someone of Holders age had to have experienced and seen. I think that those things do help shape you for the rest of your life. I'm not saying that any of it is an excuse for hatred, but I do see a difference in some of that generation. Of course, that can also be said of many of the white people who lived during some of those times. In many ways we are a product of our experiences.
However, things are getting much, much, much better. There are generations of people who have been raised to believe and see that all around them are their equal from birth.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
PO, I agree that we have to be wise with how we handle issues, but the argument will be made by many that things are simply not dead...that as you hear stories or read things when people can be anonymous and speak their minds you realize how alive some things are with some people.
Ultimately, I am of the opinion that the older generation on both sides are a product of their experiences. I honestly can imagine what someone of Holders age had to have experienced and seen. I think that those things do help shape you for the rest of your life. I'm not saying that any of it is an excuse for hatred, but I do see a difference in some of that generation. Of course, that can also be said of many of the white people who lived during some of those times. In many ways we are a product of our experiences.
However, things are getting much, much, much better. There are generations of people who have been raised to believe and see that all around them are their equal from birth.
Then Eric should have been intelligent enough to point out the positive things, like when Bobby Kennedy was Attorney General and worked with JFK to establish the legal foundations for the lasting impact of the civil rights movement.
I agree with your post that we are a product of our experiences and I agree that I don't see what Eric could have experienced. It was dumb of him to call us a "nation of cowards".
C'mon now....
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