Grace Verse Legalism

[meBNme]

Originally Posted by Mrs. LPW

Renda, I would think you would have more respect than that...

Cliff, my split ends are conditioned, my skin is clear (and for anyone who has issues, there are wonderful products like Proactive on the market) and there is absolutely nothing old-fashioned or 1890's about my wardrobe.

I don't debate or even discuss much what I do and don't do personally, with regards to the outward... on AFF or anywhere else. I live unto the Lord.
But I won't sit back on the AFF forum and read rude comments without standing up and saying something. (well, actually sitting with my legs up on my comfy chair and typing my response)

Renda, you and the others who have used the "blue denim whale" comment, (maybe soon to be replaced with the much more polite "we men don't have hair on our ears and we women have exposed pimples! But true holiness is more than a mass of split ends with a bow" NOT)
should know better.

It's rude. Plain and simple. It's especially rude coming from a Christian.

And to claim that those who keep the "standards" (don't like that term at all) are judging by the outward, and then to turn around and make comments like this, is being downright hypocritical.

[meBNme]

Originally Posted by Mrs. LPW

I think we would differ on what we believe is personal conviction and what we believe is Biblically based, but I do still get frustrated when people paint those of us who don't cut our hair as having a mess of split ends, those of us who don't wear make up as having pimply faces, those of us who don't wear pants as being blue denim whales.

Big statement. Some folks believe that certain "standards" of dress and behavior are merely rules and pastoral restrictions.
Others of us have seen scripture that we strongly believe confirms, and requires certain "standards" of dress and behavior.

I begins to seem immature, and closed minded when folks automatically lump us all into the "legalism" crowd.

My wife is ALWAYS getting comments, compliments and amazed questions like "How do you get your hair to look so healthy and beautiful, what do you do to it? No one seems to believe her when she says, "well.... I just don't cut it." They then proceed to tell her how that simply won't work, she will have split ends, and broken unhealthy hair. They then tell her all these things she needs to do to it to keep it healthy. All the while their hair looks dry, brittle, faded, burnt out and half dead.

.....ummmm HELLOOOO!?!?!? Who's the one with healthy long beautiful hair that you were so amazed by? Who's the one with hair that looks like it just came through the extreme conditions human hair stress test.... and failed miserably? I think maybe she's onto something.

The blue denim whales comments and others like it making fun of someone who chooses a different standard really just seem to be dripping with bitterness.

[cliff d]

Awsome,Awsome,Awsome.........Thank you Bro. mfblume I believe that summation hits the nail on the head.....once again I say thank you.

[cliff d]

Your quote on page 14 about the blood.

[iceniez]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

i think one issue that needs to be addressed here is that grace is not lawlessness. Grace is only in effect in ones life as they yield to the spirit and allow the law of the spirit to work its work in their heart. And we cannot take away the importance of the hearing of the word of god either. God has placed leaders over the flock to use the word of god to preach sound doctrine, reprove, bring correction, and instruct the saint in the ways of righteousness. The balance to this discussion is that grace without the word of god is not grace at all. Grace instructs the receiver to separate themselves from worldliness and unrighteousness, and live righteous and sober. Those that continue to love this present world with its "things" do not possess grace.

very true and your comment did not go unnoticed.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by stmatthew
i think one issue that needs to be addressed here is that grace is not lawlessness. Grace is only in effect in ones life as they yield to the spirit and allow the law of the spirit to work its work in their heart. And we cannot take away the importance of the hearing of the word of god either. God has placed leaders over the flock to use the word of god to preach sound doctrine, reprove, bring correction, and instruct the saint in the ways of righteousness. The balance to this discussion is that grace without the word of god is not grace at all. Grace instructs the receiver to separate themselves from worldliness and unrighteousness, and live righteous and sober. Those that continue to love this present world with its "things" do not possess grace.

St. Matthew,

This is true and what my Pastor preached on this past Sunday

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Oh boy! Least to say Max is not one of my favorites in this area. His view on Grace is well..... bad!

Raised the way I was raised - it was a breath of fresh air! I know the doctrinal differences. I also like some of Chuck Colson's work.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by meBNme

This is one I certainly agree with.
I also strongly believe that the Bible requires a standard in our lives, and it is sin not to follow it.

The standard the Bible talks about is an inward standard of holiness "The nature and Character of Christ". When you are nurturing the holiness of God on the inside, modesty of dress will follow. It is the beyond modesty to the point of manmade opinions that are the problem.

Blessings, Rhoni

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by meBNme

Agreed, but the fine line many people don't (or won't) see, is that while changing through human energy without dependence on Gods power is a recipe for failure, it does not eliminate the absolute necessity for change.

My whole point was change is needed. But the way we see it happen is what counts as either legalism or grace.

Some folks think that "Since I shouldn't be a certain way simply because of mans teachings, that means I don't have to pay heed to any of it at all."
Regardless of the fact that sometimes, some of the teachings are purely biblical.
No, not all maybe, but those that are only teachings do not discount the ones that have biblical basis.

I think that is a given.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by mfblume

My whole point was change is needed. But the way we see it happen is what counts as either legalism or grace.



I think that is a given.

Originally Posted by Rhoni

The standard the Bible talks about is an inward standard of holiness "The nature and Character of Christ". When you are nurturing the holiness of God on the inside, modesty of dress will follow. It is the beyond modesty to the point of manmade opinions that are the problem.

Blessings, Rhoni

It always come downs to manmade rules is the problem. It has been since the beginning of time. I think there is an inner nature of man that man wants to believe they can make themself righteous by dress, ceremonies, and works. God's grace is so simple that people stumble over it.

Blessings, Rhoni