God's Answer To Californication

[AmazingGrace]

Originally Posted by Esther

ummm do I have to answer that?

Nah,,, I already know the answer!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I'd like for Michael the Disciple to post all the scriptures where men, and especially kings, were evil, God hating persecutors, and yet they died natural deaths? And, moreover, not only did they live full lives, but were wealthy during their lifetimes?

This "God punishes the wicked and blesses the good" all the time theory doesn't hold water. Sometimes good things happen to bad people, and bad things happen to good people.

Just read Psalm 73, and you'll get a great picture of the travails and woes of a righteous man who watches his unrighteous neighbors prosper.

The difference is in the afterlife - that's where the wicked perish and the righteous live forever.

Yep, that is true too

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You are taking me out of context. I meant the Christians have become de sensitized to the point they dont think California deserves judgment. I was not implying the Christians there deserve judgment.

If you understood the implications of what desensitized means you'd NOT say I took you out of context., I did not. I fully took you IN context. Sir, only GOD knows who deserves what. You are in no position to say which state, nation or city deserves Punishment MORE than the others. Amsterdam...why has that place NOT been wiped off the map yet? How easy it is to sit back in the arm chair and read the paper and say "Yes, they deserve to be destroyed by God....so this fire must have been from God"...

Events like these happen ALL the time EVERYWHERE. They are NATURALLY occuring. You don't know WHEN and WHO God is going to punish unless you are a prophet and God SENT you to warn them first. They were warned in the bible.

BTW the example of Sauls kids...that was not punishment for Sauls sins as if His were greater than all the other kings that offered their sons to Molech.

Again, nothing you have posted PROVES that of ALL the fires in October we have every year, this one was from God....we have these every year. They are going to happen, with or without the Mayor of SD.

And what the Mayer did is no different than what happens in Rio De Janeiro or other places filled with debauchery. This stuff happens in many other places than just SD....it happens even worse in SF and has been happening, so can you explain since you have the mind of God, why God chose SD and not SF or Amsterdam or Rio or any other place? Your arguments are inconsistent

As you recall I have already stated Im sure there are some Godly Christians in California.

Well gee thanks for that vote of confidence...some. That might even include me....except that you seem to think I need your advice to be saved by your final post to me. You should quit while behind and remove the foot from your mouth. You are wrong. You don't know that this was God, particularly since it was going to happen anyways. It always does this time of year

Now concerning the rest. I am not trying to prove to you this was the judgment of God. I believe it is. I cannot go to the Bible and say "God said he will punish California for its sins".

Are you sure? Let's ask the others. It sure seems you were trying to argue this was the judgment of God. You certainly believe it was, so then why else make the arguments you have? You compared us to Sodom. Come on now....I want to take you seriously. If you can't prove it, why believe it? Did God give you a vision? Did he whisper in your ear? Or was this just a feeling?

But as a Bible reader for many years his priciples are very clear on the matter. God has not retired from being actively involved in the affairs of men. It appears some must think he has.

Nobody here said that he retired. Your accusation is false. We are discussing California and YOUR assertion that we are like Sodom and deserve punishment

You say you cannot think of anything in your lifetime where you believe he has intervened in the affairs of men. Yet read the books of Kings or Chronicles. Or Judges or Samuel. You will see that YHWH followed along with all the affairs of the rulers in Israel.

You asked about my life time, then take me to the OT. How old do you think I am? You asked about THIS lifetime and I told you I don't know. Natural disasters happen. God never whispered in my ear or gave me a vision to say "See how all those people died in Katrina and all the suffering? I did that because of their sin"...sorry but unless God informs me and since I am not God, my answer is..I don't know if I have seen it or not. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not it has happened or still CAN happen.

You did not ask me if it could have happened. You asked me if in my lifetime where I believe he has done this...I don't like to base my beliefs on feelings. I base them on the word of God and on facts. My feelings are not truth. If God wants to tell me personally of such an event, then I can say yes I believe that.

Now, if you want to say "I don't know this was from God, but I think it is possible" that's another matter.

But the facts are this...these fires happen ALL the time. God does these things to get our attention, and since we are used to this happening ALL the time, why would God use something that happens ALL the time that would get nobody's attention? Also in the OT God warned of impending judgment to give a chance at repentance. Where was that?

God's judgments are usually reserved too for Israel, in the bible. Because they are HIS people and he corrects them. There were wicked nations all over the earth and the times he brought them down against Israel was because of Israel's wickedness, to correct them.

See, your arguments just don't add up. Can God do something like this? yes. Does it make sense that this was the hand of God? no. Could God do something to punish those people that did this? Yes. Does it make sense that this fire was it? No

WE have them every october and have had them for as long as I can remember and I am over 40. Some years are worse than others.

Over and over again it describes their sins and how he answered them. Since he is the same yesterday, today, and forever I imagine he still is interested in the works of men today.

That is irrelevant. That does not prove one thing about what you "think" about what happened in California

Your defense of California is very loyal.

Oh bull. Im not defending California. Im pointing out your arguments don't hold water. It's full of holes.

Yet you dont see your state like others see it.

I live here. I know more about my state than you ever will. You don't have a clue sir.

The flood of fornication from there has been non stop ever since I can remember. Certainly there is a righteous remnant there and certainly there is fornication elsewhere.

The flood of fornication is EVERYWHERE. You are clueless and isolated. It's NOT just a California thing. Get out and about. It's all around.

Additionally you are confusing ALL of California with only certain cities IN California. Sin here is no different than sin there. If there are more sinners it's only because there are more people.

[Praxeas]

What is the must staggering thing to me is the reaction Im getting simply for stating what Preachers preach every day that God will punish nations for sins. Altho the more I live the more I see that "preaching" is to a great degree mere showmanship any more. Just "hot sermons" for the praise of men.

That's NOT what you simply stated. You made some assertions about God's judgment ON California and compared California to Sodom. Don't try to shift the burden of proof to other people or try to get off so easily with Red Herring arguments. This whole thread is about you, what YOU said about California, compared them to Sodom and the punishment of God. YOu said it had to do with the bill the governor voted in and the actions of the mayer of SD.

Yeah? Why would God punish California for that and not just those cities or men? You just don't know. You are shooting from the hip and anything that moves with careless and reckless abandon. And then trying to divert the argument to other areas about what some preachers do. If you want to abandon now your position that God did this to punish California and that California is synonymous with fornication, be my guest. But My city is not California, we are merely IN California and I venture to bet my city is not a whole lot more wicked than yours....maybe less so! All big cities have their problems! Most of California is NOT to be compared to SF.

Then when God DOES punish a place because of sin they cant bear to hear it.

That is totally up to God. That's the point. And God used something that was unique and got their attention. IN our case these fires always happen Every year all over California. If God did not want to punish us just yet, these fires would have happened anyways...don't you get that?

Many times I have thanked Jesus that his judgments against this nation have thus far been FAR LESS than we deserve.

Far less in your opinion. Only God is the true Judge of who deserves what and in what amount.

my bible says if God reproves and chastises YOU he deals with YOU as a son. That's what we should be concerned with

Every where you look its sin. Everything you hear is sin.

So I stick to my belief God is judging California. He is judging America.

Your evidence is full of holes. Your believe is subjective and judgmental

My goodness if people cant see the hand of God in something like this it makes me wonder will they be able to see his hand in anything?

Back to the "Me super spiritual, you false Christian" syndrome.

If you can't see that this fire season would be here without God's hand then I have to wonder about whether you are even able to have objective thoughts based in reality.

There are much greater judgments knocking on America's door. When they hit many will continue on in their thinking it is not the Lords hand. Some will never see his hand in anything. The God of the Bible is real and he is sovereign.

Maybe they are judgments and maybe they are not.The point is NOT every bad thing that happens is the judgment of God. You just don't know and it does not make sense since these fires would have occurred anyways...they always do. Get it yet? They are always happening

In short California has been crying for judgment for a long time.

Why ALL of California? Why not individual cities? In order to be consistant you would have to say ALL natural disasters are the judgment of God and all bad things that happen to people are judgment. But you won't and you can't. The simple truth is you just don't know that THIS was God's judgment. And in fact if God was going to judge any of California it might yet to have come. That's the point. These things happen ALL the time. Sitting back snuggly and saying "they deserved this" is insane

Now they are forcing their public servants to participate in Sodomite parades.

uh, no...That only happened in SD and WE are not all going along with it. That is NOT all of California. Good grief.

They are making laws where you must passivly sit by while your children are taught the praises of Sodom. It is something good and positive. If you speak against it you can be punished.

Whats that compared to other cities that made it legal for them to marry?

AGain that law does not make California synonymous with fornication. God judged Sodom because of the wickedness of the people. Once again you are trying to make an argument that your belief is TRUE, though you say you were not doing that.

250000 people or more have been evacuated from their homes.

So what?? EVERY YEAR people get evacuated from their homes because of the fire...the same time of the year EACH year. Prove that is the judgment of God.

I believe it is a wake up call. Yes it will probably die down and we will begin the pouring out of tax dollars to fix the problems as usual.

It was not much of a wakeup call. These fires happen EVERY YEAR...did that sink in yet? Every Fall they happen. Big ones. Huge ones. Dangerous ones. Lots of homes destroyed. It's inevitable like death and taxes sir.

Friends it has been said "God has more disasters than America has money".

That's nice, but does not prove these fires were from God. God usually gives out warnings. That's what the two witnesses were for in Revelation. To warn of judgment, not to say what already happened was judgment.

Judgment is coming, the bible says so. But it is coming to the nations. Wrath saved up for the last days

Fear God. Love God. Seek his face. Obey his commands. You will be saved.

Once again you leave the same post that assumes we are not doing all that....you seem to be setting yourself up here as some sort of last days prophet who stands alone and lonely amid the squaller of false Christianity.

Say it is not so, but I can see the writing on the wall so to speak.

Nobody here said judgment does not happen. But you keep trying to make it that argument

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sister Truth Seeker

If this wasn't so silly it would be funny! Why do you people put every terrible thing that happens as God's revenge...if that were true the whole world would be on fire and this would be the end....

Exactly. These kind of people are a thorn in the side of some True Christians who experience some tragedy...oh, that must be the judgment of God.