Moses was unfaithful when called

[donfriesen1]

[QUOTE=Amanah;1617679]Don, Thank you for your reply! Very interesting.

Do you think that non-covenantal believers will exist in the New Jerusalem (Rev 21-22) along with the covenant believers?

(Plz forgive me while I refer to the past, and the comments which rightly should be in another thread - now locked) I fear you ask a trick question because of past comments in another thread of mine, where we disagreed on a topic related to heaven and those who went there. If it is a trick question about believers and unbelievers, then I ask you to define what they are. If not a trick question (plz forgive me my suspicious mind) and you mean 'people believing in Jesus but not born again' then I would say the following: The new Jerusalemn is heaven. Without are the unbelievers and sinners. Re21.8; 22.15

And if so will they have the same status or will there be a hierarchy of believers?

I believe that there will be a hierachical system because a hierachical system is seen among the angels and that something similar will exist for humans. Greater obedience and greater scarifice on earth, would logically be given greater rewards. Among them may be positional rewards (we will co-reign with him) He talked about those who sit on the right/left of him. Those martyrs in Rev7 are shown positionally nearer to the Lamb. Comments Jesus made, when he said that the least in the kingdom of God (on earth?) are greater than the prophet John Baptist (whose was the greatest prophet), hint at this hierachy. Speaking of rewards in parables, he said that some will rule over more than others - hinting again at hierachical systems. Perhaps, I say without having any scriptural evidence to present to back it with, it is logical to believe those born again will be in the upper hierachy and the other-than-born-again in a lower.

Sometimes, when the scripture isn't detailed enough to say it speaks clearly, it is best to be silent or speak with a caveat that it is an opinion. But its always fun to speculate, don't you agree?

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Wow.

So according to you, if the elders "get a funny feeling" they should "appoint someone who hasn't been faithful", they can nevertheless be "comforted"? By you and your teaching? You believe God "may indicate a lack of obedience should be overlooked IN SPITE OF the instructions" given by the Scripture?

Sorry, but you are in more error than I thought. You are literally teaching that people can and even should disobey the Scriptures if they "get a funny feeling they should" do so? And this in reference to church leadership and ministry?

I guess Rick Joyner and Chris Reed would agree with you here.

In any event, the Bible gives instructions on who is to be ordained into ministry, and what their qualifications are. And as apostolic Bible-believing Christians, we agree with those instructions, and simply aren't interested in trying to find loopholes and "exceptions" to allow disobedient and possibly dangerous people a chance to ravage the flock of God.

Thx for taking the time to read my post and comment on it. But plz, answer the question posed in post 123.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

nc

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Leaf chompers!

nc

[Amanah]

Don replied:

If not a trick question (plz forgive me my suspicious mind) and you mean 'people believing in Jesus but not born again' then I would say the following: The new Jerusalemn is heaven. Without are the unbelievers and sinners. Re21.8; 22.15

I don't mean it as a trick question, but a curiosity as to whether you believe or have been dialoguing with people who believe what is known as the light doctrine, usually associated with Rev 22:2.
It is a doctrine that has 2 classes of believers in the New Jerusalem. And if you prefer not to answer, I'm good with that. Because you are correct that it more relates to the locked thread

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Don replied:



I don't mean it as a trick question, but a curiosity as to whether you believe or have been dialoguing with people who believe what is known as the light doctrine, usually associated with Rev 22:2.
It is a doctrine that has 2 classes of believers in the New Jerusalem. And if you prefer not to answer, I'm good with that. Because you are correct that it more relates to the locked thread

I've not heard of 'the light doctrine', nor have I ever spoken to anyone of it.

I do believe I did answer whether I believe in multiple classes of people in heaven, giving explanations thereto, in post 141.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

I've not heard of 'the light doctrine', nor have I ever spoken to anyone of it.

I do believe I did answer whether I believe in multiple classes of people in heaven, giving explanations thereto, in post 141.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

I've not heard of 'the light doctrine', nor have I ever spoken to anyone of it.

I do believe I did answer whether I believe in multiple classes of people in heaven, giving explanations thereto, in post 141.

Multiple classes in Heaven?

What verses do you use?

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Multiple classes in Heaven?

What verses do you use?

So, like the caste system in India?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by diakonos

So, like the caste system in India?

That’s a really good point.

The Caste system is exactly what it is.

Hinduism with the ideology of “fate” predestination there is no way out of the cycle unless you are reincarnated. You live your life over and over until you get it straightened out. The Talmudic Rabbinate in the first century AD believed in reincarnation, and soul transmigration. But, I digress, caste systems are religious in the way they’re set up. Certain Restorationist Christian/Cult groups view themselves as the special “chosen” class. Therefore everyone who doesn’t accept their “ anointed one” or teachings aren’t lost, but will gain entrance to heaven because they were “right living.” Or received a “noble resurrection.” Since they have no reincarnation cycle, you only get one shot at eternal life. If you don’t get with Elijah Mohammad, William Sowders, William Branham, and Joseph Smith. All of these individuals built their religious systems with a future after life which gives access to heaven to a slave class who will serve their elect.

Leaves for everyone!!!