Depression

[n david]

Originally Posted by consapente89

I am not talking about psychiatric treatment for confirmed psychiatric conditions. I am talking about behavior modification, emotional upset, addiction etc.

You know as well as I do that these are different issues.

Behavioral modification, emotional upset, addictions are different than even depression and anxiety.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by n david

James 5:14-15 "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."

Here it shows faith required by the elders praying, not the person being prayed over. While there two instances in the NT in which Jesus acknowledged faith of the sick person, there is no verse which requires faith.

Mark 6 even shows that Jesus healed the sick in Nazareth in spite of there being unbelief.

Mark 6:5, 6 "And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief."

Again, I believe the majority of the time, "they didn't have faith" is a cop out and excuse to try and explain why a person wasn't healed. Sometimes a person can be full of faith and God does not heal. That brings me to lame excuse #2: "It's not God's will."

Another excuse I hear used is when a preacher talks about whether or not it's really God's will to heal someone. I have yet to have a preacher show me where in the Bible a person went to Jesus to be healed and was turned away. The main response I get is "But Paul had a thorn in the flesh," and then I ask them to finish the verse, "a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." Quite simply it is always God's will to heal. The NT shows that He healed them "all." Not a single person left Jesus still sick and diseased.

Sometimes God does not heal. I don't know why, but I don't believe in blaming the sick person for lack of faith and I don't believe in questioning God's will to heal.

A dear friend from Bible School days suffered with epilepsy and daily seizures for over 25 years. A couple times he was hospitalized and they thought he would die. He had been prayed for by countless ministers and saints. But God didn't heal him. His faith never wavered. Every time we spoke over the phone, he was upbeat, optimistic and thankful.

It really made me upset a few times and I remember praying and asking God why my friend isn't healed. My friend is a Godly man, a great husband and father -- far better and more faithful than I have been. Why then would God allow this? I even would bring up the story of Job in my prayers -- there was a time when God finally said enough and restored to Job his health and more than he had before. I began asking God to have mercy on my friend and remember him as He did Job.

Last year, he was at the altar after a message and someone prayed for him and he said he felt an assurance that he was healed. It's been several months without any seizures and he's claimed healing from his epilepsy.

Concerning Depression:

Isaiah 61:3
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

Heaviness is a spirit we call depression

Strongs defines heaviness as

Strong's Definition
From H3543; {feeble} obscure: - somewhat {dark} {darkish} wax {dim} {heaviness} smoking.
Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition
dim, dull, colourless, be dark, faint

The Bible tells us to combat or fight depression through praise and worship.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by n david

"

Here it shows faith required by the elders praying, not the person being prayed over. While there two instances in the NT in which Jesus acknowledged faith of the sick person, there is no verse which requires faith.

Mark 6 even shows that Jesus healed the sick in Nazareth in spite of there being unbelief.

Mark 6:5, 6 "And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief."

Again, I believe the majority of the time, "they didn't have faith" is a cop out and excuse to try and explain why a person wasn't healed. Sometimes a person can be full of faith and God does not heal. That brings me to lame excuse #2: "It's not God's will."

Another excuse I hear used is when a preacher talks about whether or not it's really God's will to heal someone. I have yet to have a preacher show me where in the Bible a person went to Jesus to be healed and was turned away. The main response I get is "But Paul had a thorn in the flesh," and then I ask them to finish the verse, "a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." Quite simply it is always God's will to heal. The NT shows that He healed them "all." Not a single person left Jesus still sick and diseased.

Sometimes God does not heal. I don't know why, but I don't believe in blaming the sick person for lack of faith and I don't believe in questioning God's will to heal.

A dear friend from Bible School days suffered with epilepsy and daily seizures for over 25 years. A couple times he was hospitalized and they thought he would die. He had been prayed for by countless ministers and saints. But God didn't heal him. His faith never wavered. Every time we spoke over the phone, he was upbeat, optimistic and thankful.

It really made me upset a few times and I remember praying and asking God why my friend isn't healed. My friend is a Godly man, a great husband and father -- far better and more faithful than I have been. Why then would God allow this? I even would bring up the story of Job in my prayers -- there was a time when God finally said enough and restored to Job his health and more than he had before. I began asking God to have mercy on my friend and remember him as He did Job.

Last year, he was at the altar after a message and someone prayed for him and he said he felt an assurance that he was healed. It's been several months without any seizures and he's claimed healing from his epilepsy.

[/QUOTE] Mark 6 even shows that Jesus healed the sick in Nazareth in spite of there being unbelief.[/QUOTE]

Not sure which verse your trying to use.

Mark 9:23-24
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. [24] And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.


Jesus is telling this man if you believe, all things are possible. The fact that this man confessed and asked God to Help his unbelief shows I believe his faith. I personally believe that faith to come and to get prayed for is faith enough to heal you. Does it happen every time? No, it doesn’t, which tells me 3 things, I or the individual didnt have the faith for this, God is going to use this for his glory, its a spirit and needs to be cast out, or rebuked.

[/QUOTE] James 5:14-15 "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.[/QUOTE]

You are correct I misspoke, I do need faith to pray for the sick, but I believe the brunt of the faith needs to come from them. My faith or your faith cannot override their doubt. When we go and pray for the elderly, young people, sick and dying we have to have the faith in the midst of some pretty heart breaking situations, yet they must believe that God can heal.

[/QUOTE] Another excuse I hear used is when a preacher talks about whether or not it's really God's will to heal someone. I have yet to have a preacher show me where in the Bible a person went to Jesus to be healed and was turned away.[/QUOTE]

Brother I can’t. Yet, what about?

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Greater works can you show me where the greater works are in this bible?

Mark 6:5-6
And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. [6] And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Now the Bible separates “mighty” work to healing a few sick folks. Thats interesting.

Anyway, I believe its our responsibility to ask God to heal us, and if there is not a healing there is a reason.

Ill believe with you and your friend. I’m glad to hear that praise report.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Concerning Depression:

Isaiah 61:3
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

Heaviness is a spirit we call depression

Strongs defines heaviness as

Strong's Definition
From H3543; {feeble} obscure: - somewhat {dark} {darkish} wax {dim} {heaviness} smoking.
Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition
dim, dull, colourless, be dark, faint

The Bible tells us to combat or fight depression through praise and worship.

I don't believe spirit of heaviness is referring to a demonic spirit. If you look at the verse, meanings and commentaries, it points to the person's spirit, not a demonic one.

Several refer to Isaiah 42:3 "A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth."

[n david]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Not sure which verse your trying to use.

The verse to which I was referring was under that sentence. It was Mark 6:5, 6 "And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief."

To me that shows that in spite of the unbelief, Jesus was still able to heal. Lack of faith didn't stop God from healing.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Mark 9:23-24 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. [24] And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Jesus is telling this man if you believe, all things are possible. The fact that this man confessed and asked God to Help his unbelief shows I believe his faith. I personally believe that faith to come and to get prayed for is faith enough to heal you. Does it happen every time? No, it doesn’t, which tells me 3 things, I or the individual didnt have the faith for this, God is going to use this for his glory, its a spirit and needs to be cast out, or rebuked.

Faith isn't magical or something which requires much effort. If a person comes before the church requesting prayer, that shows enough faith for them to be healed. If a minister is taking his calling seriously, praying with the individual shows enough faith for them to be healed.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

You are correct I misspoke, I do need faith to pray for the sick, but I believe the brunt of the faith needs to come from them. My faith or your faith cannot override their doubt. When we go and pray for the elderly, young people, sick and dying we have to have the faith in the midst of some pretty heart breaking situations, yet they must believe that God can heal.

See above -- faith doesn't require much effort.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Anyway, I believe its our responsibility to ask God to heal us, and if there is not a healing there is a reason.

I agree we are responsible to ask for healing.

One issue I struggle with is healing -- specifically why it doesn't always happen. I believe like Billy Cole -- you should be surprised if healing doesn't happen instead of that it happens. I've posted this before, I agree with a minister who lamented over the medicine cabinet of saints being no different than that of the unsaved.

Now I understand that you can't abuse your body and eat a bunch of junk and expect God to keep you from diabetes or heart disease. But if I let myself dwell on it, I get frustrated that we don't see more (to use an Arnold message title) "explainable yet undeniable" healing or miracles here in the US. I hear all about it in foreign countries, but I want to see it happen here.

I want my kids to see it happen today, not just read about how it happened in the Bible or how it happens overseas.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Brother Nic, why do you have a picture of Santa Claus as your signature picture?

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by nDavid

To me that shows that in spite of the unbelief, Jesus was still able to heal. Lack of faith didn't stop God from healing.

No. It’s not stating that those healed had unbelief. He didn’t do MANY miracles there because the MAJORITY of the people there had unbelief. Had they believed He would have healed them.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by diakonos

No. It’s not stating that those healed had unbelief. He didn’t do MANY miracles there because the MAJORITY of the people there had unbelief. Had they believed He would have healed them.

How much faith did Lazarus have?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

How much faith did Lazarus have?

A ton.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

A ton.

Interesting