Were tithes ever required by Jesus or the Apostles?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Anything preached legalistically is dead-wrong, sister. We cannot make excuses for it. When giving tithes is an escape from cursing all the while Jesus is our escape from cursing, having been made a curse for us, legalism robs Christ of His position in our lives and replaces Him. To me, that is serious.

Giving should always be done cheerfully. If one is not a cheerful giver, then there is a problem. Often, legalism is that problem.

Well you have a point of course but first of all what is and isn't deemed legalistic or a requirement is subjective.

Secondly, I'm not sure that people are close fisted because tithing is taught as a requirement. Some people just don't want to give and are selfish and self-centered. Simple as that.

Thirdly, I wasn't excusing anything.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Well you have a point of course but first of all what is and isn't deemed legalistic or a requirement is subjective.

Secondly, I'm not sure that people are close fisted because tithing is taught as a requirement. Some people just don't want to give and are selfish and self-centered. Simple as that.

Thirdly, I wasn't excusing anything.

When I was in the UPC I tithed and gave.

But when guys like Jack Cunningham at a district meeting pressured to give.....it put me on the spot.

I would not give because I felt pressured.

But now I realize tithing is not required or commanded nor will one be cursed if they don't tithe.

I was drilled for almost twenty years about tithing and "shall a man rob God"? doctrine.

It makes me question the UPCI and it's doctrines.

Because to be so "Full Of Truth" there is a lot of false teachings.

And UPC will not budge from anything traditional.....

Truth needs to be truth....

If tithing is not an Apostles doctrine, why teach it?

Why not just preach that it is a tradition to pay tithes....but it is not a biblical requirement to be saved or to be a member of the church.

Why not teach to give with out pressure or guilt? Thats the way the Apostles taught it.

Give and it shall be given....NOT "give or you are robbing God"

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by COOPER

When I was in the UPC I tithed and gave.

But when guys like Jack Cunningham at a district meeting pressured to give.....it put me on the spot.

I would not give because I felt pressured.

But now I realize tithing is not required or commanded nor will one be cursed if they don't tithe.

I was drilled for almost twenty years about tithing and "shall a man rob God"? doctrine.

It makes me question the UPCI and it's doctrines.

Because to be so "Full Of Truth" there is a lot of false teachings.

And UPC will not budge from anything traditional.....

Truth needs to be truth....

If tithing is not an Apostles doctrine, why teach it?

Why not just preach that it is a tradition to pay tithes....but it is not a biblical requirement to be saved or to be a member of the church.

Why not teach to give with out pressure or guilt? Thats the way the Apostles taught it.

Give and it shall be given....NOT "give or you are robbing God"

Coop, I think you make sweeping generalizations about everyone in the UPC which may or not be true of each and every UPC preacher. But I can agree with your point that tithing is not taught in the NT. Giving is taught but tithing isn't.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Coop, I think you make sweeping generalizations about everyone in the UPC which may or not be true of each and every UPC preacher. But I can agree with your point that tithing is not taught in the NT. Giving is taught but tithing isn't.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by COOPER

When I was in the UPC I tithed and gave.

But when guys like Jack Cunningham at a district meeting pressured to give.....it put me on the spot.

I would not give because I felt pressured.

But now I realize tithing is not required or commanded nor will one be cursed if they don't tithe.

I was drilled for almost twenty years about tithing and "shall a man rob God"? doctrine.

It makes me question the UPCI and it's doctrines.

Because to be so "Full Of Truth" there is a lot of false teachings.

And UPC will not budge from anything traditional.....

Truth needs to be truth....

If tithing is not an Apostles doctrine, why teach it?

Why not just preach that it is a tradition to pay tithes....but it is not a biblical requirement to be saved or to be a member of the church.

Why not teach to give with out pressure or guilt? Thats the way the Apostles taught it.

Give and it shall be given....NOT "give or you are robbing God"

The existence of preachers and congregations that use rules and regulations to turn principles into legalism do not negate the validity and beneficience of the principles.

If your local UPCI #314 enforces a strict dress code, and Sister Pharisee has run off countless people with the gimlet eye she casts upon non-regulation apparel, it DOES NOT MEAN THAT MODESTY IS NOT A GODLY PRINCIPLE WORTHY OF PURSUIT, PRACTICE, AND PREACHING. All you can truly say is that local #314 has taken a wrong turn.

It's the same deal with tithing. I, too, have had membership in churches where I was asked if I was going to rob God. And I have had membership in churches where it was taught that grateful and faithful Christians tithed from the fullness of their hearts, not from fear. I was blessed for my tithing in both places. What's up with that?

Defense of principles is not defense of legalism.


And as far as this business of criticizing people who question tithing as being people who have trouble with authority, I reject and rebuke this mindset. Different people make progress in their faith at different rates in different areas of Christian life. Somebody who was raised in a non-religious home, such as myself, who heard their father repeatedly say that all preachers were hypocritical money-grubbing scoundrels, is going to have more trouble entering in to complete faith in this area than someone raised in a deacon's home. Somebody who grew up in a legalistic church, but has moved or received a new pastor, struggles as they internally confront their earliest teachings with new concepts.

The appropriate response to such individuals is compassion and prayer, with perhaps a little mentoring thrown in to boot. Not the quickdraw application of the label of 'rebel.' God didn't throw you over to a reprobate mind over your long-term peccadillos, did he? God has enough grace for everybody.

The bible is vivid and clear about what circumstances warrant excommunication.

It's good to question paradigms, but a lot of things that are presently in place are in place for a good reason, and questioners need to be open to that possibility in their quests, too.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

The existence of preachers and congregations that use rules and regulations to turn principles into legalism do not negate the validity and beneficience of the principles.

If your local UPCI #314 enforces a strict dress code, and Sister Pharisee has run off countless people with the gimlet eye she casts upon non-regulation apparel, it DOES NOT MEAN THAT MODESTY IS NOT A GODLY PRINCIPLE WORTHY OF PURSUIT, PRACTICE, AND PREACHING. All you can truly say is that local #314 has taken a wrong turn.

It's the same deal with tithing. I, too, have had membership in churches where I was asked if I was going to rob God. And I have had membership in churches where it was taught that grateful and faithful Christians tithed from the fullness of their hearts, not from fear. I was blessed for my tithing in both places. What's up with that?

Defense of principles is not defense of legalism.


And as far as this business of criticizing people who question tithing as being people who have trouble with authority, I reject and rebuke this mindset. Different people make progress in their faith at different rates in different areas of Christian life. Somebody who was raised in a non-religious home, such as myself, who heard their father repeatedly say that all preachers were hypocritical money-grubbing scoundrels, is going to have more trouble entering in to complete faith in this area than someone raised in a deacon's home. Somebody who grew up in a legalistic church, but has moved or received a new pastor, struggles as they internally confront their earliest teachings with new concepts.

The appropriate response to such individuals is compassion and prayer, with perhaps a little mentoring thrown in to boot. Not the quickdraw application of the label of 'rebel.' God didn't throw you over to a reprobate mind over your long-term peccadillos, did he? God has enough grace for everybody.

The bible is vivid and clear about what circumstances warrant excommunication.

It's good to question paradigms, but a lot of things that are presently in place are in place for a good reason, and questioners need to be open to that possibility in their quests, too.

Rebuke duly noted.

[Jodiah91]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Why.....Churches are more like Town Clubs and Golf memberships.

It's more like...If you are to join our church pay your dues...

Do Churches trust God to provide or it's members?

It makes me sick in my soul to see churches ask for money to pay bills.

Giving a gift is one thing......but to expect 10 + 5 percent evey paycheck is a bit demanding.

If no one is giving anything. . .tithes or offerings--where do you think the $$ is going to come from? Is it going to miraculously appear out of nowhere? Yes, God could make this happen anytime he felt like it but why should He have to do that, when His people are working and bringing home a paycheck (from a job that He most likely helped them get) and yet complain about having to give any of it back to Him and His house? No, I don't think tithes are REQUIRED, but I do think that God is the author of my entire life and everything I have, I owe to Him. The job I have I thank Him for every day and to say that I can't or won't give any of my earnings back to be used for His house/work, is selfish of me. I also don't believe tithes is strictly limited to $$. Tithes is giving back of any increase, even that which is not actual cash.

This is just my belief. . . .yet one that I have lived by and it's proven itself to me countless times over.

Coop,

What was the evidenced method of giving in the early church (think Acts of the Apostles)? Are you willing to do as they did and "have all things common?"

When you get your paycheck this week, just bring it on down and we will take care of the deposit for you! And by the way, go ahead and sell that fine Dodge Charger you have and your house and all your possessions and give that into the treasury as well.

After all, we are talking a lot about what isn't taught or demonstrated... Why don't we talk a little about what is taught and demonstrated?

[Coonskinner]

Coop,

Ask yourself this question:

If everyone attended and gave like you, how many churches would there be to minister to the lost?

Just a thought.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Coop,

Ask yourself this question:

If everyone attended and gave like you, how many churches would there be to minister to the lost?

Just a thought.

Just for the record, I was a very faithful tither and giver while in the UPC.