Public school and the Christian parent

[Esaias]

From the first post:

1 God holds parents accountable for their children's education and upbringing:

Deuteronomy 6:6-7 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: (7) And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Nurture: paideia
Thayer's Definition:
1) the whole training and education of children (which relates to the cultivation of mind and morals, and employs for this purpose now commands and admonitions, now reproof and punishment) It also includes the training and care of the body
2) whatever in adults also cultivates the soul, especially by correcting mistakes and curbing passions.
2a) instruction which aims at increasing virtue
2b) chastisement, chastening, (of the evils with which God visits men for their amendment)

“Bring them up, etc - Εκτρεφετε αυτα εν παιδειᾳ και νουθεσια Κυριου· literally, Nourish them in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. The mind is to be nourished with wholesome discipline and instruction, as the body is with proper food. Παιδεια, discipline, may refer to all that knowledge which is proper for children, including elementary principles and rules for behavior, etc. Νουθεσια, instruction, may imply whatever is necessary to form the mind; to touch, regulate, and purify the passions; and necessarily includes the whole of religion. Both these should be administered in the Lord - according to his will and word, and in reference to his eternal glory. All the important lessons and doctrines being derived from his revelation, therefore they are called the discipline and instruction of the Lord.” (Clarke's Commentary)

“But bring them up - Place them under such discipline and instruction that they shall become acquainted with the Lord.
In the nurture - ἐν παιδεία en paideia. The word used here means “training of a child;” hence education, instruction, discipline. Here it means that they are to train up their children in such a manner as the Lord approves; that is, they are to educate them for virtue and religion.” (Barne's Notes)

Parents are commanded to teach their children, therefore they are accountable for their children's education, it's content, and morality. The education of children is nowhere mandated in scripture to anyone but parents. Anyone else who teaches children does so as proxies of the parents, and therefore as their agents. Therefore whatever is taught, the parents are accountable for.

[Esaias]

American Federation of Teachers, second largest teacher's union in America: some history:

Facing opposition from politicians and boards of education, membership in AFT declined to 7,000 by 1930. During this period, the organization had little impact on local or national education policy.[5]

AFT membership climbed during the Great Depression, reaching 33,000 by 1939. During the 1930s, AFT, whose members had historically been primary school teachers, saw influential college professors join the union. Also during the 1930s, the Communist Party gained influence within the AFT.[5] In 1941, under pressure from the AFL, the union ejected three local unions in New York City and Philadelphia (including its prominent early member, the New York City Teachers Union, AFT Local 5) for being communist-dominated. The charter revocations represented nearly a third of the union's national membership.[7]

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ameri...on_of_Teachers

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The text says children are be given paidea, and it is be "of the Lord". ALL Christians have ALWAYS affirmed, throughout history, that the paidea (education) of children is to be Christian, with a Christian philosophy of education. That is, until they got sold on the atheistic, humanist program of "free public school". And up until the mid 20th century, American public schools largely followed a Christian philosophy of education. Although the seeds of humanist tares had been sown amongst the wheat of Christian pedagogy, it wasn't until the 60s that the concealed hand of Soviet inspired and Talmudic directed humanistic goals was revealed, and God was officially and legally expunged from the public school system. It took another 20 some odd years before the edicts trickled down to rural Southern schools, the last exhibits of an older Christian and traditional pedagogy.

Parents are accountable for their children's education ("upbringing"). Attempting to dice life into seperable compartments, with "religion and morals" on one side and "secular subjects" on the other is the methodology of the destroyers of civilization. ALL education is moral, and religious. The question is whose morals and whose religion?
Secular education isn't religiously or theologically neutral. In English class students don't just learn raw grammar rules, they study literature and written models, which are selected for ideological content. In Math class students solve word problems that are written to advance ideology. Look at Ray's Arithmetic (19th century) vs modern "new math" textbooks and it is obvious.
History and science are blatant examples of ideological indoctrination into the religion of humanism.
MORE IMPORTANTLY, the public school philosophy by law proceeds on the assumption that Christianity is a superstitious lie.
Therefore, the public school system as it currently operates does not fit the requirements laid down by Scripture.

Education: The process of receiving or giving systematic instruction, especially at a school or university.

http://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/education.

To understand Greek word in the correct context you follow the words’ etymology. We see paideúō used as nurture, instruction, chastening or chastisement. It is used only once pertaining to the relationship between parents and children found in Ephesians 6:4, and the context is nurture.

Ephesians 6:4 (KJV) And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture (Strong's G3811) and admonition of the Lord.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction (Strong's G3811) in righteousness:

Hebrews 12:5 (KJV) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening (Strong's G3811) of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Hebrews 12:7 (KJV) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth (Strong's G3811) not? 28 But if ye be without chastisement, (Strong's G3811) whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Hebrews 12:11 (KJV) Now no chastening (Strong's G3811) for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

This Greek term really means instructing through correction. When you follow the usage through Hebrews it applies to the saints being corrected by the Holyghost when they commit sin or offences. When you follow the etymology it is clearly derived from teaching a child by correction. You will find a reference in Strong’s is in the definition- i.e. educate; which is a Latin term translated in English as “that is.” This is referring to its usage toward training the child with correction which can be likened to education. This is no way should be interpreted in a modern English sense of education through schools or higher learning institutions.

Strong's G3811: paideúō; from G3816; to train up a child, i.e. educate, or (by implication), discipline (by punishment): —chasten(-ise), instruct, learn, teach.

Strong's G3816: paîs; perhaps from G3817; a boy (as often beaten with impunity), or (by analogy), a girl, and (genitive case) a child

Strong's G3817: paíō; a primary verb; to hit (as if by a single blow and less violently than G5180

Strong's G5180: týptō; a primary verb (in a strengthened form); to "thump", i.e. cudgel or pummel (properly, with a stick or bastinado), but in any case by repeated blows.

This is a classic mistake of not understanding a words’ etymology and using the English connation to develop a doctrine. You used the phrase; “ALL Christians,” as if that would validate your interpretation. Just because Strong’s or other reference books may attribute the word to education doesn’t negate how a word is used throughout the scriptures. This word means learning through correction, period. I would revert to 2 Timothy 3:16 that scriptures are profitable for ministers, saints and parents to teach others in the way of righteousness. But you still have not shown how a saints’ obligation to teach their children scriptures and God’s ways translates and extends into academic curriculum. In the ancient times only the rich had the resources to provide their children a formal education. The priest and kings had the resources to have scriptures and the poor had neither. Our society trying to give everyone access to an education which does have it merits and its weaknesses. But to take scriptures out of context and develop a stringent doctrine is unwise.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Selah

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

Education: The process of receiving or giving systematic instruction, especially at a school or university.

http://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/education.

To understand Greek word in the correct context you follow the words’ etymology. We see paideúō used as nurture, instruction, chastening or chastisement. It is used only once pertaining to the relationship between parents and children found in Ephesians 6:4, and the context is nurture.

Ephesians 6:4 (KJV) And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture (Strong's G3811) and admonition of the Lord.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction (Strong's G3811) in righteousness:

Hebrews 12:5 (KJV) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening (Strong's G3811) of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Hebrews 12:7 (KJV) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth (Strong's G3811) not? 28 But if ye be without chastisement, (Strong's G3811) whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Hebrews 12:11 (KJV) Now no chastening (Strong's G3811) for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

This Greek term really means instructing through correction. When you follow the usage through Hebrews it applies to the saints being corrected by the Holyghost when they commit sin or offences. When you follow the etymology it is clearly derived from teaching a child by correction. You will find a reference in Strong’s is in the definition- i.e. educate; which is a Latin term translated in English as “that is.” This is referring to its usage toward training the child with correction which can be likened to education. This is no way should be interpreted in a modern English sense of education through schools or higher learning institutions.

Strong's G3811: paideúō; from G3816; to train up a child, i.e. educate, or (by implication), discipline (by punishment): —chasten(-ise), instruct, learn, teach.

Strong's G3816: paîs; perhaps from G3817; a boy (as often beaten with impunity), or (by analogy), a girl, and (genitive case) a child

Strong's G3817: paíō; a primary verb; to hit (as if by a single blow and less violently than G5180

Strong's G5180: týptō; a primary verb (in a strengthened form); to "thump", i.e. cudgel or pummel (properly, with a stick or bastinado), but in any case by repeated blows.

This is a classic mistake of not understanding a words’ etymology and using the English connation to develop a doctrine. You used the phrase; “ALL Christians,” as if that would validate your interpretation. Just because Strong’s or other reference books may attribute the word to education doesn’t negate how a word is used throughout the scriptures. This word means learning through correction, period. I would revert to 2 Timothy 3:16 that scriptures are profitable for ministers, saints and parents to teach others in the way of righteousness. But you still have not shown how a saints’ obligation to teach their children scriptures and God’s ways translates and extends into academic curriculum. In the ancient times only the rich had the resources to provide their children a formal education. The priest and kings had the resources to have scriptures and the poor had neither. Our society trying to give everyone access to an education which does have it merits and its weaknesses. But to take scriptures out of context and develop a stringent doctrine is unwise.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Selah

You obviously don't understand Greek. Nor do you seem to understand basic proof and refutation. That's okay, though. What you seem to believe is that it is perfectly alright for Christians to place their children into the care of an antichrist system designed (admittedly, they really admit it!) to destroy Christianity, for the most formative years of their lives, spending 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 9 or 10 months of the year, for a minimum of 13 years straight.

The results are all around us. And you are defending it, and providing cover for it. You should have watched that video by "Brother Nathanael", a former Jew converted to Eastern Orthodox who spends all his time now exposing Talmudism's influences on modern social institutions - including American public education.

Someone once said 'if you keep doing what you've been doing, you will keep getting the results you've been getting.' As long as Christians continue sending their kids to Babylon to be "educated", we will continue seeing the current results: increasing numbers of young people brainwashed to think like humanists, slaves of bolshevik groupthink, ever increasing numbers abandoning the faith once they become adults, voting for democrats...

Meanwhile, those who get it, get it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It's easy. Tell him he needs to learn a practical, moneymaking trade in addition to whatever field he is drawn to. BTW, robotics may very well be a trade by the time he's in his 20s.

"Son, when you are 16, get a part time job working as an apprentice to a skilled craftsman. That way when you're ready to go to college or technical school to learn robotics you'll have convinced me to help pay for it."

I like that. In fact, I'm going to do just that. Thanks.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

From the first post:

1 God holds parents accountable for their children's education and upbringing:

Deuteronomy 6:6-7 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: (7) And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Nurture: paideia
Thayer's Definition:
1) the whole training and education of children (which relates to the cultivation of mind and morals, and employs for this purpose now commands and admonitions, now reproof and punishment) It also includes the training and care of the body
2) whatever in adults also cultivates the soul, especially by correcting mistakes and curbing passions.
2a) instruction which aims at increasing virtue
2b) chastisement, chastening, (of the evils with which God visits men for their amendment)

“Bring them up, etc - Εκτρεφετε αυτα εν παιδειᾳ και νουθεσια Κυριου· literally, Nourish them in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. The mind is to be nourished with wholesome discipline and instruction, as the body is with proper food. Παιδεια, discipline, may refer to all that knowledge which is proper for children, including elementary principles and rules for behavior, etc. Νουθεσια, instruction, may imply whatever is necessary to form the mind; to touch, regulate, and purify the passions; and necessarily includes the whole of religion. Both these should be administered in the Lord - according to his will and word, and in reference to his eternal glory. All the important lessons and doctrines being derived from his revelation, therefore they are called the discipline and instruction of the Lord.” (Clarke's Commentary)

“But bring them up - Place them under such discipline and instruction that they shall become acquainted with the Lord.
In the nurture - ἐν παιδεία en paideia. The word used here means “training of a child;” hence education, instruction, discipline. Here it means that they are to train up their children in such a manner as the Lord approves; that is, they are to educate them for virtue and religion.” (Barne's Notes)

Parents are commanded to teach their children, therefore they are accountable for their children's education, it's content, and morality. The education of children is nowhere mandated in scripture to anyone but parents. Anyone else who teaches children does so as proxies of the parents, and therefore as their agents. Therefore whatever is taught, the parents are accountable for.

I agree with you, to a point. I believe the parent's duty before God is strictly in relation to religious/spiritual education and teaching. For example, if a child desires to get into robotics, the parent isn't responsible for teaching the child robotics. Of course, the parent can help steer the child the direction they desire to go, but the educational institutions capable of teaching robotics need not be "Christian". The child must be taught the beliefs and practices of the faith by the parents, and the child must be prepared to engage an unbelieving world, by the parents.

I'm terrible at algebra and trig. If God holds me responsible for teaching that to my child, roast me now. lol

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree with you, to a point. I believe the parent's duty before God is strictly in relation to religious/spiritual education and teaching. For example, if a child desires to get into robotics, the parent isn't responsible for teaching the child robotics. Of course, the parent can help steer the child the direction they desire to go, but the educational institutions capable of teaching robotics need not be "Christian". The child must be taught the beliefs and practices of the faith by the parents, and the child must be prepared to engage an unbelieving world, by the parents.

I'm terrible at algebra and trig. If God holds me responsible for teaching that to my child, roast me now. lol

Use teaching software.

or send them to me, I aced Algebra and pre Calculus

Don't ask me about grammar though

my college grammar text was written by Noam Chomsky

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1614278040/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Use teaching software.

or send them to me, I aced Algebra and pre Calculus

Don't ask me about grammar though

my college grammar text was written by Noam Chomsky

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1614278040/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

I don't think you got the point.

There are times when the parents are not capable of teaching certain subjects, especially as they get more advanced. To say that a parent's SALVATION is predicated upon always insuring that their child is being taught by a Christian institution or Christian person is silly. The parent is responsible for teaching the foundational truths of the Christian faith, and perhaps whatever else they can teach based on their own experience. But there comes a time when a parent has to allow their child to experience the real world, the world we live in.

When you look at it closely... a lot of these Reconstructionist thinkers often teach that parents are Hell bound if they send their child to any educational institution that isn't Christian... and guess who has big money invested in private Christian education, home schooling curriculums, etc.??? The Reconstructionists. lol

I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to ensure that your kids are educated by Christians as much as possible. What I am saying is that a parent's soul isn't going to be lost if they send their kid to a secular summer camp, a public school, or a charter school. It's just silly.

Now, a parent will be held accountable by God for not teaching the foundations of the Christian faith to their children. That I can agree with.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

my college grammar text was written by Noam Chomsky

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1614278040/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

Noam Chomsky? The social anarchist??? lol

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree with you, to a point. I believe the parent's duty before God is strictly in relation to religious/spiritual education and teaching. For example, if a child desires to get into robotics, the parent isn't responsible for teaching the child robotics. Of course, the parent can help steer the child the direction they desire to go, but the educational institutions capable of teaching robotics need not be "Christian". The child must be taught the beliefs and practices of the faith by the parents, and the child must be prepared to engage an unbelieving world, by the parents.

I'm terrible at algebra and trig. If God holds me responsible for teaching that to my child, roast me now. lol

If a child IS TAUGHT robotics, the parents are responsible for what the child is taught, especially and specifically any content that affects morals, beliefs, values, behaviors, etc.

I never said a parent is obligated to teach some particular academic subject, or obligated to see to it that any particular academic subject be taught. By "responsible" I mean accountable for what IS taught, whatever it may be.