I think it's always been happening, but we are just hearing about it more.
I don't think it's anymore of a problem than with other religions, however.
It IS more of a problem. But I do not think it is happening with other religions so much. It is happening in UPC churches more and more because of the financial viewpoint of the pastor having CONTROL of all the tithes.
In many UPC churches, there are basically 2 or 3 accounts and maybe even only 1 account. There is the Tithe account where ALL the tithes go and then there is a General account where everything else goes and maybe a Missions account as well. Usually, the pastor has CONTROL of ALL the Tithe account which in an average church could be $100K-200K. Then the rest of the church's bills are paid out of the General account. Most churches do NOT produce for the their people an accurate accounting of where the money goes. Most of them just show the tithing coming in and not how much of it goes to the pastor.
This is a disaster waiting to happen, both morally and legally as far as the IRS is concerned.
Some of you guys better wake up and get your house in financial order. When the IRS starts cracking down because more and more of this stuff happens a lot of "houses of straw" will be blown down.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
hey, MOW, do you know the Schaffner's? He was ass't pastor there many years ago, I believe.
The Schaffner's were very good friends of mine. I used to stay with them from time to time when he assisted in that church. I also preached for him when he was in Toledo as well. I also preached in that church a few times after he left as well.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
Did you make a TAPE of it? That's what I need to hear - about healing from wounds...A person can only patch up their own wounds for "so long"...I know God can do the spiritual/emotional/mental healing...but sometimes it does take longer than a few days to heal - just as in the case of a physical affiliction. Post it on a website. Give us a link. I'm serious. I realize you probably can't do that. Just post the scriptures here and give us your notes.
I am just about to finish up a series called, "War of the Worlds" about spiritual warfare how wounds are doorways to spiritual strongholds and demonic activity. Much of the material I used was from Neil Anderson's "Bondage Breaker" and "Victory Over The Darkess" series. This is some of the most spiritual, logical and plausible material I think that has been produced on spiritual warfare. When I am finished in 2 weeks, I will have a 6 part DVD series that we put together.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
It IS more of a problem. But I do not think it is happening with other religions so much. It is happening in UPC churches more and more because of the financial viewpoint of the pastor having CONTROL of all the tithes.
In many UPC churches, there are basically 2 or 3 accounts and maybe even only 1 account. There is the Tithe account where ALL the tithes go and then there is a General account where everything else goes and maybe a Missions account as well. Usually, the pastor has CONTROL of ALL the Tithe account which in an average church could be $100K-200K. Then the rest of the church's bills are paid out of the General account. Most churches do NOT produce for the their people an accurate accounting of where the money goes. Most of them just show the tithing coming in and not how much of it goes to the pastor.
This is a disaster waiting to happen, both morally and legally as far as the IRS is concerned.
Some of you guys better wake up and get your house in financial order. When the IRS starts cracking down because more and more of this stuff happens a lot of "houses of straw" will be blown down.
See, it's quite the opposite from what I've seen. The churches I've been a member of, for the most part, need two signatures for all checks and in two churches I was a member of, the pastor wasn't one of those signatures! His check had to be signed by two members of the board....who happened to sign all checks for the church.
In all the churches I've been a member of, there was a business report given to all members once a year to show how much money came in and where it all went.
I've not been a member of any church that's 'average' apparently, because there has never been 100-200K in tithes being given per year. I attended churches of 25-400 people....not necessarily all members, just those who came regularly.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
hmm... are most pastors on salaries? I have heard that putting a pastor on a salary is tying the hands of the man o gawd!! ???
I think that most get all the tithes... and most that I've sat under also got the sunday morning offerings also... Listen when the offering is taken up and see if they say tithes and offerings for the pastor? A few of us do it for nothing....
I think that most get all the tithes... and most that I've sat under also got the sunday morning offerings also... Listen when the offering is taken up and see if they say tithes and offerings for the pastor? A few of us do it for nothing....
Jerry Moon
The is an ole saying in Indiana "poor preach poor pay?"
I think that most get all the tithes... and most that I've sat under also got the sunday morning offerings also... Listen when the offering is taken up and see if they say tithes and offerings for the pastor? A few of us do it for nothing....
Jerry Moon
Well, they have never said "tithes and offering for the pastor". But, it wasn't a secret that the tithes went to the pastor.
Also, there was a pastors account.. donations to that were for birthday/holiday gifts. *shrugs*
Well, they have never said "tithes and offering for the pastor". But, it wasn't a secret that the tithes went to the pastor.
Also, there was a pastors account.. donations to that were for birthday/holiday gifts. *shrugs*
That is horrible to give a pastor a gift on his birthday or holidays. I am sure God was NOT pleased with that! The gall of some deluted church members that actually love their pastor enough to give him a gift on specials days???? What is next calling him pastor or elder or something ungodly like that??? What is Pentecost coming to the shame of the horrid deed???????????? The angels must blush.
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