Trying to Rescue Another from HMH Doctrine - Page 15

Michael Phelps · #**141** 04-30-2012, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I'm saying that "false doctrine" is subjective and shouldn't be a loosely used term. I don't believe preachers will be lost themselves simply because of a faulty understanding of scripture. I DO believe they will be lost if they deliberately mislead people because of peer pressure, keeping up appearances, selfish gain or any other kind of self-serving motivation. Being "sincerely wrong" isn't a sin, IMO. God does look at the heart of a man--including preachers and leaders who are wrong about their beliefs.

As for the "follow me as I follow Christ"--that speaks to a saint's right to choose who they follow and debunks the assertion by some pastors that saints have to ask them if they can attend another assembly. It doesn't support a saint remaining in an assembly and bucking against existing leadership.

Wow, this really surprises me about you, Miss B. You are saying that being "sincerely wrong" is not a sin???? You mean, like "ignorance is bliss"? Or "In times past, God winked at ignorance but now commands everyone to repent"?

So, I can use this to pretty much cover a multitude of sins. I don't really think you believe that.

How about this scripture - anyone who adds to or takes away from the words of this book shall have their part in the lake of fire?

Oh, and let's not forget, all I did was copy Epley's words and changed them up a bit - he's the one who asserts that any preacher who teaches that its ok for a woman to cut her hair will go to hell. Apparently, even if that preacher is "sincerely wrong".

deacon blues · #**142** 04-30-2012, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lacey

I doubt that very seriously.

If she's been taught that she gets abandoned by God and His angels simply because she has cut her hair, then he is a problem, and not much of a pastor. Pastor means shepherd and should emulate the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd would never treat His sheep in such a way. God is our Father. Earthly fathers wouldn't treat their own kids that way, how much more our heavenly Father?

MissBrattified · #**143** 04-30-2012, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

So do we bring outcome based teaching to the position of pastor? If the pastor FEELS something is right, he better preach it, even if it is wrong? In the school little Johnny is told that 2+2 CAN equal 5 if it makes him feel good about it. Do we bring that same standard to the ministry? False teaching is false teaching, even if the minister doesn't know any better.

Understanding that there are as many differing opinions as there are saints in a church, it makes sense for one person or one team of people to be the authority in the local assembly. As a saint, it's my job to follow them as they follow Christ, as Michael mentioned. It isn't my job to set them straight. If they teach something egregiously false (again, subjectively speaking), I guess I can make the decision to attend another church. I can't have a clear conscience if I stay in a church and disobey the local leadership.

I guess I make a distinction between "sincerely wrong" and "false prophet/preacher/teacher."

MissBrattified · #**144** 04-30-2012, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Wow, this really surprises me about you, Miss B. You are saying that being "sincerely wrong" is not a sin???? You mean, like "ignorance is bliss"? Or "In times past, God winked at ignorance but now commands everyone to repent"?

So, I can use this to pretty much cover a multitude of sins. I don't really think you believe that.

You could, if you wanted to be disingenuous. I'm only trying to say that we should have a measure of humility that says, because I am fallible, MY understanding could also be wrong. Therefore, I shouldn't be so quick to judge someone else as a false prophet simply because they disagree with me.

What's your opinion of the "Light Doctrine?"

MissBrattified · #**145** 04-30-2012, 10:03 PM

Lying is a deliberate act. It isn't accidental. A person who shares something [inaccurate] they believe to be true isn't lying; they are mistaken.

Michael The Disciple · #**146** 04-30-2012, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Wow, this really surprises me about you, Miss B. You are saying that being "sincerely wrong" is not a sin???? You mean, like "ignorance is bliss"? Or "In times past, God winked at ignorance but now commands everyone to repent"?

So, I can use this to pretty much cover a multitude of sins. I don't really think you believe that.

How about this scripture - anyone who adds to or takes away from the words of this book shall have their part in the lake of fire?

Oh, and let's not forget, all I did was copy Epley's words and changed them up a bit - he's the one who asserts that any preacher who teaches that its ok for a woman to cut her hair will go to hell. Apparently, even if that preacher is "sincerely wrong".

So does this also hold true with those who teach false doctrine such as pre trib rapture? Will they be lost for teaching it?

Michael Phelps · #**147** 04-30-2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Lying is a deliberate act. It isn't accidental. A person who shares something [inaccurate] they believe to be true isn't lying; they are mistaken.

Well, I guess that we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

If I understand what you're saying, if someone REALLY believes something to be true, even if there is NO scripture to back it up, or there is misinterpreted scripture, then it's ok - because they are "Sincere" about it.

I just don't buy that. Not for a minute.

Do you have any scriptures in mind that would back that up?

Because if that's the case, every trinitarian who is sincere is saved. Every Muslim who is sincere is saved.

MissBrattified · #**148** 04-30-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Well, I guess that we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

If I understand what you're saying, if someone REALLY believes something to be true, even if there is NO scripture to back it up, or there is misinterpreted scripture, then it's ok - because they are "Sincere" about it.

I just don't buy that. Not for a minute.

Okay, LOL!!! Agree to disagree, then. I didn't say it was "okay"; I'm just not willing to put "sincerely wrong" and "lying false prophet" in the same category. To me, the latter is someone who deliberately misleads people for personal gain or some other selfish purpose. God deals with people who are wrong patiently and compassionately--good thing, because I've been wrong quite a few times. He deals with false prophets harshly.

Michael Phelps · #**149** 04-30-2012, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So does this also hold true with those who teach false doctrine such as pre trib rapture? Will they be lost for teaching it?

Do you preach that those who don't agree with your position on this issue are lost?

Michael Phelps · #**150** 04-30-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Okay, LOL!!! Agree to disagree, then. I didn't say it was "okay"; I'm just not willing to put "sincerely wrong" and "lying false prophet" in the same category. To me, the latter is someone who deliberately misleads people for personal gain or some other selfish purpose. God deals with people who are wrong patiently and compassionately--good thing, because I've been wrong quite a few times. He deals with false prophets harshly.

But, we're talking about two different things here.

A person who believes something in his or her own heart is one thing.

However, a preacher who preaches an issue as a matter of salvation, and that issue is not even supported by scripture, that person is a false prophet. Maybe a SINCERE false prophet, but one just the same. How God deals with that person is God's business, but there are some harsh punishments in scripture for the Pharisees who made the word of God null and void with their own traditions.

Just sayin'