Want to help me pick a new religion?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

From my experience my answer would be "Or are all of you simply acquainted because you gather in the same building two to three times a week"

That's the greatest problem I've had in the UPC churches I've attended. There are no house churches or "open" home fellowship groups. No format for body ministry, confession of sin, prayer, sharing, or providing for one another's needs. Essentially we all met in the same building two to three times a week to listen to a sermon and pay our dues to ensure that the pastor didn't loose the building or his salary.

Frankly, the vast majority of what I've learned about the Lord came from my own personal devotions and study. The sermons were not expository either. Most were on something like, "The Four Steps to Victory" at best. Most of the time it was a rant against gays, television, and not meeting the standards. When I began attending a Southern Baptist church that was a network of house churches the teaching was VERY expository. In the larger gatherings on the weekends we are covering every verse of the Gospel of John. I've attended two house churches. One is covering every verse in Hebrews and the other the book of Acts. Frankly, I've never experienced learning this much in church. Those who present the studies are well versed in the language, culture, customs, timing of events, etc. It's WONDERFUL. I do miss "Holy Ghost" filled worship sometimes. But again, the center of my spiritual life and worship is my home. The church doesn't "identify" me. Christ and my experience in Him does. So I still fellowship and talk to members from the UPCI church I used to attend. Most count me "backslidden" but that's because they don't believe one can have a personal relationship with God.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

We are possibly just about as far away from the real Church as we can be with this model.

That's an understatement.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Amanah

T2W, possibly you are attending a backwater, old time ultracon church.
I used to attend a church like this.

There are UPC churches that are nothing like this. There are independent OP churches that are nothing like this.

See if there are other OP churches in the area, visit them, pray about them. I personally would not stay in a backwater church that preaches superstition, and propagates hatred towards anyone.

Originally Posted by Amanah

when a church gets into a contest to see who is living the standards the strongest, and starts eyeing each other up to see who might be on their way to hell, then it's time to run for your life.

Not all UPC churches are like this. You can have a church that teaches standards, but doesn't enforce with maniacal, you are on your way to hell if you don't line up, glee.

Bless you Amanah, but your words are in vain in threads such as these. Even though your thoughts are dead on. The services T2W are describing are not mainstream UPC. It is not another religion she seeks, but the degrading of an existing one. The broad brushing of the majority by the few experiences. As you, Hoovie, Prax and myself have stated, these descriptions are not the common UPC. The more this thread goes on you see a turn from an honest sincere question for guidance to a same ole same ole UPC bash thread. The final evidence of that being when T2W responded to Prax's post using the term "your people". You compound this with the rebuttles that she is now more decerning than everyone else because she sees through the preaching and doctrine where as the rest of us are brainwashed and don't know any better and you end up with the typical UPC basher thread.

Like I said, yes there are some churches and pastors that are as she has described and there are some that are even worse, I have been to a couple. But it is not mainstream UPC. I can make an equally long list of wonderful things taken from many UPC churches. But if you create a thread for that, it usually ends up looking like this one.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Aquila

That's the greatest problem I've had in the UPC churches I've attended. There are no house churches or "open" home fellowship groups. No format for body ministry, confession of sin, prayer, sharing, or providing for one another's needs.

We have them. Meet two or three times a month. We also have three members who have home ministries. We also support three or four other home missionaries.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by scotty

Bless you Amanah, but your words are in vain in threads such as these. Even though your thoughts are dead on. The services T2W are describing are not mainstream UPC. It is not another religion she seeks, but the degrading of an existing one. The broad brushing of the majority by the few experiences. As you, Hoovie, Prax and myself have stated, these descriptions are not the common UPC. The more this thread goes on you see a turn from an honest sincere question for guidance to a same ole same ole UPC bash thread. The final evidence of that being when T2W responded to Prax's post using the term "your people". You compound this with the rebuttles that she is now more decerning than everyone else because she sees through the preaching and doctrine where as the rest of us are brainwashed and don't know any better and you end up with the typical UPC basher thread.

Like I said, yes there are some churches and pastors that are as she has described and there are some that are even worse, I have been to a couple. But it is not mainstream UPC. I can make an equally long list of wonderful things taken from many UPC churches. But if you create a thread for that, it usually ends up looking like this one.

I think it is an issue of locality. In my region the churches are always at each other's throats... standards focused... service focused... money focused. I've yet to see a pastor who accepted other local pastors freely, didn't focus on standards, or demand a tithe. The closest I've come to was a pastor who chose to say he was giving me back my tithe when I was in a financial bind. By doing this he stated that I didn't have to write a tithe check until the debt was paid. Upon being out from under the debt he expected me to resume tithing.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by scotty

We have them. Meet two or three times a month. We also have three members who have home ministries. We also support three or four other home missionaries.

That's very healthy Scotty. But most of the UPCI churches in my neck of the woods don't have them. One experimented with them, but it went badly. A brother tried to shave off those attending his "care group" to form a separate church. It was ugly.

Since then... I've not seen any UPCI churches in my locality doing this.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think it is an issue of locality. In my region the churches are always at each other's throats... standards focused... service focused... money focused. I've yet to see a pastor who accepted other local pastors freely, didn't focus on standards, or demand a tithe. The closest I've come to was a pastor who chose to say he was giving me back my tithe when I was in a financial bind. By doing this he stated that I didn't have to write a tithe check until the debt was paid. Upon being out from under the debt he expected me to resume tithing.

In our area the local pastors work hand in hand. One pastor from the next town over comes to our church once every three months and preaches a service. 6 pastors in my state have gotten together and created a seminar group called LID Lifters. They hold a seminar once a month open to all that teaches leadership in the real world using biblical principals.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by scotty

In our area the local pastors work hand in hand. One pastor from the next town over comes to our church once every three months and preaches a service. 6 pastors in my state have gotten together and created a seminar group called LID Lifters. They hold a seminar once a month open to all that teaches leadership in the real world using biblical principals.

Scotty... you're blessed. It's not like that everwhere. The UPCI has good churches and pastors. But many of us haven't seen very many.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by scotty

Bless you Amanah, but your words are in vain in threads such as these. Even though your thoughts are dead on. The services T2W are describing are not mainstream UPC. It is not another religion she seeks, but the degrading of an existing one. The broad brushing of the majority by the few experiences. As you, Hoovie, Prax and myself have stated, these descriptions are not the common UPC. The more this thread goes on you see a turn from an honest sincere question for guidance to a same ole same ole UPC bash thread. The final evidence of that being when T2W responded to Prax's post using the term "your people". You compound this with the rebuttles that she is now more decerning than everyone else because she sees through the preaching and doctrine where as the rest of us are brainwashed and don't know any better and you end up with the typical UPC basher thread.

Like I said, yes there are some churches and pastors that are as she has described and there are some that are even worse, I have been to a couple. But it is not mainstream UPC. I can make an equally long list of wonderful things taken from many UPC churches. But if you create a thread for that, it usually ends up looking like this one.

I simply used the term 'your people' to acknowledge that Prax had said that people in the UPC were different there then here. I am not sure I believe him/her because my very bad experience was in a large UPC church that is famous for having turned out more ministers than any other church.

I also do not see myself as more discerning than anyone else. As a matter of fact I think that people let all the baloney go over their heads for a reason or group of reasons... chiefly that they want to stay where they are... they are comfortable.

If this is not mainstream UPC then please tell me how it shows up in their publications? WHO published Reider's work on hair, in example?

You are telling me not to judge an org. by the churches I have attended while you are judging an org. by the church you attend. I've admitted that there MUST be some good UPC churches out there but they are not in my area and I can not travel hundreds of miles to go to church... Therefore I am leaving the UPC. For some reason that seems to be seen as 'bashing' by you... Why? If it is the examples I gave it was posts like your own that disputed that there could be anything wrong with the org. or my church that seemed to require them. I am not a hater, believe me, if I were I'd fit in a lot better where I've been.

[Aquila]

People have different spiritual needs. One size does not fit all.