 |
|

02-17-2011, 03:56 PM
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,280
|
|
Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Because if there was another sign, it would be just as plain as Peter being astonished that they, Cornelius, et. al, had received the Holy Ghost, knowing that they did because he heard them speak in tongues. That is pretty plain and conclusive, IMO.
|
Conclusive enough to dogmatize it and say it's the "only" way???
That's taking some huge liberties... liberties that the Word of God never took.
|

02-17-2011, 03:57 PM
|
Registered Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 427
|
|
Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale
You are taking things waaaaaaaaaay too personal. It's obvious that debating is a new venture for you. They say, if you can't take the heat, get out of the fire. This Forum get's awfully hot sometimes, but that's how we learn. I am going to challenge your beliefs if I disagree, and I will rebuke, laugh, and accept some of what you say.
It's also obvious you've done very little research on American obesity. No offense OPII, but people get fat because they eat too much. A simple study shows how imbalanced and unhealthy we are because of our eating habits. I have many Apostolic friends who weigh 300-400 pounds, and because much of this “Weight” is in the ministry, very little is said about this horrific problem.
I was taught back in the 70’s when I was a new convert, our Temple, or body is to be treated as God’s Temple and that I should quit smoking because it was a bad witness and bad for my health.
You can slice it and dice it all you want too, but overeating in the Church today is no different than using nicotine; obesity is one of the leading causes of heart disease, high blood pressure, cancer, joint failure, diabetes, and is an outward sign that people lack discipline.
If you are going to condemn someone for having short sleeves, or for wearing lip gloss, you are imbalanced if you don’t condemn those who eat too much.
|
Absolutely not!! I have no problem having a discussion with someone who has a different view. But YOU are the one who comes in with name-calling such as, "Big baby", and "Pharisee", and whatever else you've managed to throw at me. Disagree, go ahead. Save your anger for the real enemy!
As far as obesity goes, I sliced and diced nothing and have no idea what you're talking about. I simply said that obesity is NOT a sin and there are several physical disorders that result in obesity that have NOTHING to do with behavior. Obesity CAN be the result of sin, but it is not a sin! Saying that obesity is a sin is like saying pregnancy is a sin. I can be the result of it, but it's not sin. And I absolutely DO believe that gluttony is a sin and I said so previously. You're putting words in my mouth that I never said.
|

02-17-2011, 03:59 PM
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,280
|
|
Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Because if you have experience in anything, you can talk about it with more knowledge. If I knew how to rebuild a motor, I could talk about that with clarity because I have experience.
Yes, of course, in the Lord. But, why focus on the very few, in my experience, that take it and run their own way? Why not just focus on what God is doing and making available in us?
|
Not all topics are experientially discussed. For instance, theology is studying what God said, what God did and what that says about God. While I do agree, the Spirit's indwelling presence bridges the gap between knowing and believing, there is much we can discuss with scripture alone, and make plenty of strides. It's either scripture or not. Turning someone away because they haven't experienced it isn't right. We didn't rebuild a motor, we were touched by God in a specific way. If I had not been part of a culture that pressed for tongues, sometimes I wonder if/how my Spirit baptism would have looked. I had people all around me screaming in tongues, telling me "that's it, let go, release it, let it go." That said, it's hard for me to discredit the very true experiences I've had in God on that level. But it's equally hard for me to see us trying to force God's hand into our grid.
|

02-17-2011, 04:00 PM
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,351
|
|
Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithit166
ive manipulated noone i just spoke what was spoken to me,doesnt matter if you believe it or not no disrespect thats all there is to say blessings
|
What voice did you hear? “God's Voice” was used to convict those in the Salem Witch Trials, putting innocent people in prison and condemning them to death. I’ve watched many use this term in the past, only to find they heard nothing accept an emotional array of maybes.
Spectral evidence is the number one cause of manipulation and deceit in Religion today.
|

02-17-2011, 04:03 PM
|
 |
paladin for truth
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 777
|
|
Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Because if there was another sign, it would be just as plain as Peter being astonished that they, Cornelius, et. al, had received the Holy Ghost, knowing that they did because he heard them speak in tongues. That is pretty plain and conclusive, IMO.
|
You assume they were expecting a sign as being normative? Were not these spiritual precedents [in Acts] unique and different in their own right?
Going back to what I said regarding what the Apostles explicitly taught, unless one can flip the pages and find proper support for this assumption, it appears to be hanging from a thread.
|

02-17-2011, 04:16 PM
|
 |
Not riding the train
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
|
|
Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite
Not all topics are experientially discussed. For instance, theology is studying what God said, what God did and what that says about God. While I do agree, the Spirit's indwelling presence bridges the gap between knowing and believing, there is much we can discuss with scripture alone, and make plenty of strides. It's either scripture or not. Turning someone away because they haven't experienced it isn't right. We didn't rebuild a motor, we were touched by God in a specific way. If I had not been part of a culture that pressed for tongues, sometimes I wonder if/how my Spirit baptism would have looked. I had people all around me screaming in tongues, telling me "that's it, let go, release it, let it go." That said, it's hard for me to discredit the very true experiences I've had in God on that level. But it's equally hard for me to see us trying to force God's hand into our grid.
|
Quote:
While I do agree, the Spirit's indwelling presence bridges the gap between knowing and believing,
|
Emphatically agree.
I wasn't raised in this, so I have a different impression. The events that took place to where He led me, I would have to pay attention to that. And as I saw things that were hurtful, questionable, etc., I went to Him and He showed me in His Word. So, I don't, normally, focus on the negative.
"Blessed be the LORD: for he hath shewed me his marvellous kindness in a strong city." Psalm 31:21
|

02-17-2011, 04:18 PM
|
 |
Ravaged by Grace
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,948
|
|
Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegsm76
NOW - c'mon work with me here! I know I'm stretching a point, but I think it is there, even if a small one!
I am on both forums, also!
Never been on AMF, though.
|
I'm serious. If it were a split that stormed off in anger, I wouldn't have anything to do with it. That never feels good no matter how justified the cause seems. And OPII, as out there as he is at times, is making a pretty decent point with this thread, that very few here are "traditional apostolics." I knew the number was down, but I didn't realize it was so few...what is it, two or three that have answered the questions correctly? So this forum is "Lib" all the way, I'd say. How could there be a Lib split from a Lib forum?
When I first got on here, I posted something about my view of things concerning the Holy Spirit and salvation and all hell broke loose. Now, if I say that, no one would notice...except for the yawns.
__________________
You know you miss me
|

02-17-2011, 04:19 PM
|
 |
Not riding the train
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
|
|
Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by noeticknight
You assume they were expecting a sign as being normative? Were not these spiritual precedents [in Acts] unique and different in their own right?
Going back to what I said regarding what the Apostles explicitly taught, unless one can flip the pages and find proper support for this assumption, it appears to be hanging from a thread.
|
It appeared to be normative to Peter. He was astonished because he saw a visible sign of what happened to the Gentiles. He "recognized" them being filled with the Holy Ghost because he "heard" them speak in tongues - just like they did at the beginning. Sorry, noeticknight, unless God shows me something else, I'll have to believe what I believe.
|

02-17-2011, 04:21 PM
|
 |
Not riding the train
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
|
|
Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite
Conclusive enough to dogmatize it and say it's the "only" way???
That's taking some huge liberties... liberties that the Word of God never took.
|
Yes!  You say liberties that the Word of God never took. I see Peter evidencing the exact thing taking place in Cornelius' household.
|

02-17-2011, 04:24 PM
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,280
|
|
Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Yes!  You say liberties that the Word of God never took. I see Peter evidencing the exact thing taking place in Cornelius' household.
|
The Word of God never made the claim that it was the exclusive evidence. Nowhere. Ever.
Because Peter points out that they were speaking in tongues like the others were, and that he was witnesses them receive them Spirit does not establish that as "exclusive" evidence.
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
| |
|