Why Is The "Christmas Spirit" So Different? - Page 15

Truthseeker · #**141** 12-02-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

There is no big difference. You are actually saying SOME instances of pagan worship are fine while others are not, depending on what we can control? You see no error in that reasoning? And yet you say we are wrong since we allow some things and not others?

You only don't see it as big difference because you celebrate it.

It's true we can't isolate ourselves from all pagan symbols and such, but to use days of the week, which we have no control over it being named, to justify partaking of past pagan customs/celebrations/practices that we can control is not the same. Only works for them who like christmas

Truthseeker · #**142** 12-02-2010, 07:18 PM

Old quote from diggin4truth:

If I were an enemy of the church I have learned enough to know that all I would need to do is make something fun, cute, heart warming or touchy feely tingly with emotion and I'm in like Flynn.

This the main reason folks will not see the arguement about christmas. You know it also so magical for the kids.

Truthseeker · #**143** 12-02-2010, 07:19 PM

BTW appreciate the manner we all good folks are discussing the subject. Every church I've attended has celebrated to some degree. My current church goes full swing with holidays even valentines with cupid and all, but that's another thread.

Most in my church don't even know my stance, I don't rip others over it. Will discuss why I don't if asked.

missourimary · #**144** 12-02-2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

It has nothing to do with time. If someone worshiped a pagan tree god by putting sacrifices beneath a decorated tree, then left that false faith, and two hours later put a gift beneath a decorated tree for a friend, there is nothing wrong with that second act. All anyone can do is distort the point we are making and change it into some strawman like time passing to condone a ritual used in worship.

...and if the new brother was reminded of his idolatry by putting a gift under a decorated tree, he could and should be all means refrain for conscience's sake. Yet he shouldn't look down on those who have no such memory or intent. That's my understanding of what Paul was writing.

Someone asked, inside another quote, what songs came from pagan roots. Almost all the songs we sing in Apostolic churches... and not too long ago at that. Any song we sing using drums and electric guitars would turn some little old lady's hair blue in a number of other churches, because we "bring the world into the church" with it. Because that little old lady is remembering Elvis's debut or some of the Beatles' songs... My own mother thinks if a song has a beat other than the left hand part in a hymn, it borders on sin when performed in church. Tamborines? Holdover from hippies. Guitars, drums, and electric keyboards? Rock. Stages and stage lights? Outrage! Heresy! That's straight out of rock and roll. Who popularized fog machines or light shows? Rock musicians? That's how I learned about them. Seeing them used at youth convention seemed a little worldly even to me.

Sam · #**145** 12-02-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houston

Feel inspired to wear feathers in my hair and chant as I hop around in a circle... ...at church. All for the glory of the Lord!!

feathers in your hair are OK. So is jewelry in your hair or on your clothes or on your eyeglass frames or on your watch. Just don't wear jewelry in your nose, or ears, or on your toes or fingers.

mfblume · #**146** 12-02-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary

...and if the new brother was reminded of his idolatry by putting a gift under a decorated tree, he could and should be all means refrain for conscience's sake. Yet he shouldn't look down on those who have no such memory or intent. That's my understanding of what Paul was writing.

Right. The weak conscience is with the one offended. And we are not to cause people to lose out with the Lord by offending them. It is more important to promote righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost than to be correct and yet offend a brother. DO it away from those of weak conscience. Rom 14 in a nutshell.

mfblume · #**147** 12-02-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

You only don't see it as big difference because you celebrate it.

It's true we can't isolate ourselves from all pagan symbols and such, but to use days of the week, which we have no control over it being named, to justify partaking of past pagan customs/celebrations/practices that we can control is not the same. Only works for them who like christmas

It really cannot matter if it is something we can control or not. It is either wrong or it is not wrong. I never heard of anything in the Bible being allowed due to impossible situations that would not be wrong otherwise. I have to have scripture fort that kind of distinction to allow for your reaosning. Sounds like "situation ethics" -- a wrong is okay in the right situations.

Thanks for your thoughts!

mfblume · #**148** 12-02-2010, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I know we can go down alot of rabbit trails of what if's, but what if one burnt an incense unto buddha today got coverted tonight but tomorrow say they burning it unto Christ?

I never said anything about burning incense to Christ. In fact, I have emphasized all along the concept of simply giving gifts to each other beneath a decorated tree. No worship to God involved. The more correct comparison you should make is that if a former buddhist liked the smell of the incense, and simply burned it for the sake of the aroma, without any reference to Christ at all.

Quote:

Most truely converted pagan person would hold unto their idolatrous ways. Something about abstain from idols would mean something to them.

Only because of a weak conscience.

Quote:

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

What would such like mean? I have no doubts a true converted pagan would not want anything to do with "such like" their past pagan customs.

If they had a weak conscience, sure.

Truthseeker · #**149** 12-03-2010, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

It really cannot matter if it is something we can control or not. It is either wrong or it is not wrong. I never heard of anything in the Bible being allowed due to impossible situations that would not be wrong otherwise. I have to have scripture fort that kind of distinction to allow for your reaosning. Sounds like "situation ethics" -- a wrong is okay in the right situations.

Thanks for your thoughts!

That's because you celebrate it. Bias situational blindness.

Truthseeker · #**150** 12-03-2010, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I never said anything about burning incense to Christ. In fact, I have emphasized all along the concept of simply giving gifts to each other beneath a decorated tree. No worship to God involved. The more correct comparison you should make is that if a former buddhist liked the smell of the incense, and simply burned it for the sake of the aroma, without any reference to Christ at all.

Only because of a weak conscience.

If they had a weak conscience, sure.

So one who gives up his pagan customs has a weak conscious? Oh the poer of the christmas spirit and the length gone to misapply scripture for that magical time of year.

I think diggin4truth gave a great post regarding romans 14. see if I can find it.