Has Hell Disappeared?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by missourimary

Don't think I'd put it quite that way, Prax.

lol. Yeah. Preaching on being saved and mentioning "hell" is not a bad thing

Depends on the definition of warn. We should, after all, speak the truth in love.

You know, it's the strangest thing... I just realized I've never witnessed to anyone by telling them there was a lake of fire and they'd burn in it if they didn't pray through.

You ever watch "The Way of the Master"? They do it often...

Of the verses you quoted, Prax, those in Revelations were for the church. Those quoted in Hebrews, Philippians, Corinthians, Timothy and Peter are about judgment or destruction, not fire or everlasting torment. The verse in Thessalonians could be figurative. None of those bother me in reference to hell, though several disturb me because some, like Hebrews, have been used to tell me I was damned even while I sat on a Pentecostal pew because the preacher thought 'there must be something wrong' with me. (he admitted he didn't know what, just that something must be wrong-well, if I was doing something wrong, I could change my action. I couldn't change his unnameable 'feeling' though.)

My point was, these can all be construed by some as threats or even depressing things to mention yet the early church had no problems mentioning them to the church and or to sinners

Jesus sure didn't focus on hell.

Right, but remember....I wasn't saying he did focus on hell or that we should focus on hell. That's beside the point.

Neither did anyone else in the New Testament. But mention hell if you will. Just be careful not to forget to balance it out by telling people God loves them and doesn't want them to die, but it's their choice. If there is a hell, people will go there because of the choices they've made, not because God revels in sending them there.

See...it goes without saying...well because I didn't say it. I actually said over and over that we DON'T focus on hell. We DON'T preach it over and over and over. We need to be balanced...in the face of those that say we should not preach hell at all. In discussing salvation you include what salvation is, from what? What are the consequences eternal and temporal and what is God's solution.

Some here have tried to characterize that as "fear mongering" (I know you did not but others have)

I didn't post these verses to prove we should focus on hell and never mention Love. I posted these because the bible warns people about some uncomfortable subjects (to some).

[DAII]

Praxeas, I think you are not characterizing "Way of the Master" accurately.

Ray Comfort does not start with hell but rather the LAW and how it defines all as SINNERS. For the express purpose of showing the non-believer their condition without God and where they stand before God because of SIN.

Does he discuss the consequences of SIN ???yes .. hell is a part of his message ...but his foil or contrast is not hell or heaven ... but rather the FOCUS is the root (SIN) of pending judgment (DEATH) as defined by the LAW, while speaking of the eventual consequences, and then giving the GOOD NEWS ... salvation by GRACE through faith.

I believe he would say we are saved from SIN,first and foremost..
He firmly believes one cannot embrace Grace if one does not know why one needs it.

The Good News is about our liberation from the bondage of sin and how the Lamb redeemed us from our penalty -DEATH ... by taking our place

[geekette]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

What do you think happens to one if they don't accept Jesus?

Well, according to the preachers of hellfire, they go to hell and roast for eternity. I don't know about that. What I do know is that if there is such a thing as hell, I am (1) probably on the way there since (2) I won't worship a god who has such a place.

I think it's profoundly evil to suggest that God doesn't have the infinite patience to wait for one of his children to come around. And I also know as a human being that it is well-nigh impossible for me to hold the right idea of God in my head because I'd have to *be* God to do that. And that's one think I'm absolutely certain about: I'm NOT God.

[geekette]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

WARNING......DO NOT READ THE FOLLOWING SCRIPTURES IF YOU ARE FAINT OF HEART. THE FOLLOWING ARE VERSES THAT SHOULD NEVER BE READ. The following verses contain the threats of our Lord Jesus and His Apostles

*snipt*

Thank you Prax for making darn sure that I'll NEVER, EVER darken the door of a church again. If allegedly good church people have no problem in trying to hurt the weaker among us, then I know I'm better off with the sinners. (And if Jesus were here with us today, he'd be with the sinners too.)

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by DAII

Praxeas, I think you are not characterizing "Way of the Master" accurately.

Ray Comfort does not start with hell but rather the LAW and how it defines all as SINNERS. For the express purpose of showing the non-believer their condition without God and where they stand before God because of SIN.

Does he discuss the consequences of SIN ???yes .. hell is a part of his message ...but his foil or contrast is not hell or heaven ... but rather the FOCUS is the root (SIN) of pending judgment (DEATH) as defined by the LAW, while speaking of the eventual consequences, and then giving the GOOD NEWS ... salvation by GRACE through faith.

I believe he would say we are saved from SIN,first and foremost..
He firmly believes one cannot embrace Grace if one does not know why one needs it.

The Good News is about our liberation from the bondage of sin and how the Lamb redeemed us from our penalty -DEATH ... by taking our place

I never said they start with hell. They USE hell as part of their message.

It goes like this..
What happens when you die? (Go to heaven)
Why? (Because Im a good person)
What to test that against what the bible says (Sure, because I believe Im a good person worthy of heaven)
After taking them through the law and helping them to see for themselves they aren't really that good he asks them if they were to stand before God on judgment day what would be the result? Heaven or hell? When they have humbled themselves and confess they aren't worthy of heaven, Ray tells them the good news about Jesus dying for their sins

For example, read this evangelism flip chart
http://www.livingwaters.com/index.ph...-chart&lang=en

One of the last verses is a verse about all liars going to the lake of fire

I never advocated "hell, hell hell over and over and over", "an entire sermon on hell", "threatening people with hell" "avoiding Love to just preach hell" nor "starting with hell"...I have actually said just the opposite of

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by geekette

*snipt*

Thank you Prax for making darn sure that I'll NEVER, EVER darken the door of a church again. If allegedly good church people have no problem in trying to hurt the weaker among us, then I know I'm better off with the sinners. (And if Jesus were here with us today, he'd be with the sinners too.)

I have nothing to do with that. You know that. You and others have mischaracterized what I said.

I never said anything about trying to hurt the weaker. What I did was quote the bible and point out that it does contain a message or a warning of the consequences of unbelief.

If Jesus were here today, he'd point out that what I did was quote what Jesus said

All I did was point out what the bible actually says, that it was NOT meant as threats but warnings.

I never advocated preaching hell, hell, hell over and over. I infact denied we should do that

I never advocated preaching an entire message about hell. I infact denied we should do that.

I never advocated using hell to threaten others. I instead advocated preaching what the bible says, which includes warning people, not LIMITED to warning people.

I never advocated excluding the message of love, in fact I included it. What you guys are reading is not what I'm posting. You reflecting your own thoughts into what I posted

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by jfrog

What in this world, or the world to come could be soo terrible that God would send his own son to die for us so that we could be saved from whatever fate awaited us?

Simple, death!! And He did it for everyone that came under the Adamic curse!! The free gift of God.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Dude, first of all I didn't stop her story. I pointed out that the persons she responded to never said anything about hell being preached over and over

Second, if you think your shrill hysterics constitutes a butt kicking then you more deluded than I first thought

Third, your lying when you say I tried to correct her story.

"Dude" is something you say to friends.

You pointed out diddly. She told her story, you argued with it, which doesn't make a lick of sense.

I'm "Deluded"? Interesting. I once remember a certain Admin here that got his feelings major hurt when someone told him he was delusional. That guy went on and on at what a horrible thing that was to say. Dang it, I can't remember who that was.

And lastly, you're lying when you say I'm lying. It is what it is, Praxidocy. Maybe you're delusional.

OH!!! That just helped me remember.....It was YOU!!

[Scott Hutchinson]

Jesus said if one doesn't believe in Him,they will perish,and there a punishment of the wicked taught in the bible,so we should warn the unbelieving with compassion.
People who don't believe in Christ are condemned by their unbelief,we should be concerned that people are lost,and we should have a burden to help the unbelievers go from unbelief to having faith in Christ and in His word.

We can't force people to turn to The Lord,but we can in the correct spirit warn them to flee the wrath to come.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

"Dude" is something you say to friends.

You pointed out diddly. She told her story, you argued with it, which doesn't make a lick of sense.

I'm "Deluded"? Interesting. I once remember a certain Admin here that got his feelings major hurt when someone told him he was delusional. That guy went on and on at what a horrible thing that was to say. Dang it, I can't remember who that was.

And lastly, you're lying when you say I'm lying. It is what it is, Praxidocy. Maybe you're delusional.

OH!!! That just helped me remember.....It was YOU!!

Mrs Smith, Ive never called my friends dude...BTW I've heard it means worm in Arabic.

You're still lying about what I did. She quoted me then another person, made a comment about preaching hell "over and over" and I responded that nobody here was saying we should do that.

Deluded? Maybe some other issue where you felt the need to hop off the speeeeeeshul bus and babble incoherently