Hell's Best Kept Secret? Ray Comfort

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Must I walk you through everything? I already addressed this objection that you raise in my previous post...see below.

Yes, but HOW do you get people to repent of anything if the only thing you are telling them is "God loves you, God wants you to be happy, smile Jesus loves you"????

See that brings us BACK to what Keith said...that does not save them. AT some point you have to tell the sinner, whether he has everything and thinks he needs nothing to even those that don't have everything, that they have sinned and sin will be judged, but BUT the GOOD News is that JESUS DIED for you and you DON'T have to go to hell but can go to heaven IF you put your faith IN Jesus and Repent....

That is what this thread is about...converting the unconverted and Keith pointed out it is a fallacy to think what they need is just to hear that God wants them to be happy etc etc...the Perks will be realized by them once they are convicted in their heart that they are sinners, humble themselves and receive grace

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What I was saying in context btw, was that the issue of this thread is the unconverted, the issue of what Keith was talking about was was about the unconverted to and winning them through just telling them about the TEMPORAL perks.

In other words you can tell them about the eternal perks, but what their need is is to realize they are sinners and that Jesus died for them. Sure you can tell them the eternal rewards are great, but the issue of this thread is not what good things Christians have....

it's HOW to convert the unconverted

Look, I have already showed sufficient scripture of Jesus' words and instructions and they all had a focus on heaven more so than on hell fire and he instructed the 12 go out and preach that Kingdom of Heaven is near....etc.

You can go enroll in Comfort's 12 step process if you like, I am quite content with Jesus' focus and being in line with his approach.

[MrsMcD]

This is an awesome thread!!!

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes, but HOW do you get people to repent of anything if the only thing you are telling them is "God loves you, God wants you to be happy, smile Jesus loves you"????

Okay, so you insist on more hand holding and walking you through my comments...I am going to great lengths at repeating myself since you insist on not paying attention. In response to your question above, I already addressed that earlier...see below. oy vey! By the way, whoever said that the only thing you are telling them is "come have some peaches and apple pie? Smile and be happy"?

Originally Posted by J-Roc

I am glad you did! And good night to you! Yeah, isn't that wacky...to say, "I have Good News to share with you...you are going to burn in hell if you don't stop doing what you are doing"

No, the Good News is that Jesus provides a way to eternal life, now, let me tell you everything you need to know about entering heaven....and let me tell you what awaits if you do not believe this and turn away from your sinful lifestyle.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Look, I have already showed sufficient scripture of Jesus' words and instructions and they all had a focus on heaven more so than on hell fire and he instructed the 12 go out and preach that Kingdom of Heaven is near....etc.

You can go enroll in Comfort's 12 step process if you like, I am quite content with Jesus' focus and being in line with his approach.

Jesus preached against sin to the proud and grace to the humble

The woman at the well Jesus first addressed her SIN problem....having multiple husbands and the one she was with now was not her husband THEN he introduced the Messiah to her.

If all do is tell people "you are going to heaven" how can they repent? What do they repent of if you don't tell them about sin?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Okay, so you insist on more hand holding and walking you through my comments...I am going to great lengths at repeating myself since you insist on not paying attention. In response to your question above, I already addressed that earlier...see below. oy vey! By the way, whoever said that the only thing you are telling them is "come have some peaches and apple pie? Smile and be happy"?

Nobody, which begs the question WHY are you arguing with us? That is what we are saying, you don't win them with the fluff, you need to address SIN, WHY they NEED to be saved and WHO can save them. What is the result of being saved? Heaven. But we are discussing HOW to convert the unconverted, true and false conversion and Keith mentioned the fallacy that you win them with the fluff a bout being happy and God just wants to love you etc etc...sorry but Jesus preached against sin too! They were told to repent least a worse thing happened to you.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

This is an awesome thread!!!

Chalk it up to my foil hat

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If all do is tell people "you are going to heaven" how can they repent? What do they repent of if you don't tell them about sin?

Where do you get these notions? Who is saying anything against repentance? You just really have a hard time following what I say and it is getting frustrating realigning you. I will let you be....

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Nobody, which begs the question WHY are you arguing with us? That is what we are saying, you don't win them with the fluff, you need to address SIN, WHY they NEED to be saved and WHO can save them. What is the result of being saved? Heaven. But we are discussing HOW to convert the unconverted, true and false conversion and Keith mentioned the fallacy that you win them with the fluff a bout being happy and God just wants to love you etc etc...sorry but Jesus preached against sin too! They were told to repent least a worse thing happened to you.

I will leave you with this suggestion....read the following short books (1 John, 2 John, & 3 John) and then we will talk about God and his emphasis on his love for us and what are true love means....and again, I have never said a word against repentance.....

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Where do you get these notions? Who is saying anything against repentance? You just really have a hard time following what I say and it is getting frustrating realigning you. I will let you be....

See that is the point...Keith did not say it's wrong to tell them about heaven. Yet you took exception to him saying "fallacy"....

You act as though this thread and what Keith said is "don't tell them about heaven" when the reality is this thread is about making sure we tell the sinner WHY they need Jesus....because we are sinners and WHAT we need to do...repent. So I don't see why you disagreed with Keith.