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View Poll Results: Can someone be Apostolic and deny Christ is God?
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Yes
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13.51% |
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No
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31 |
83.78% |
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Don't know/maybe
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2.70% |
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06-03-2010, 10:44 PM
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Firmly Planted in Christ
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurst, TX
Posts: 625
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Re: Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is
Is that not pertaining to the resurrection?
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06-03-2010, 11:34 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog
Who or what justified God in the Spirit?
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why does someone have to prove someone else is righteous"
1Ti 3:16 And confessedly, great is the secret [or, mystery] of godliness: God was revealed in flesh, justified [or, shown to be righteous] in spirit [or, by [the] Spirit], seen by angels, preached among [the] nations [or, Gentiles], believed on in [the] world, taken up in glory!
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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06-04-2010, 09:33 AM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Re: Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
why does someone have to prove someone else is righteous"
1Ti 3:16 And confessedly, great is the secret [or, mystery] of godliness: God was revealed in flesh, justified [or, shown to be righteous] in spirit [or, by [the] Spirit], seen by angels, preached among [the] nations [or, Gentiles], believed on in [the] world, taken up in glory!
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Could God being manifest in the flesh and justified in the Spirit be tied in to Romans 1:3-4 which says, "3 [The Gospel] regarding His Son, Who as to the flesh (His human nature) was descended from David,
4 And [as to His divine nature] according to the Spirit of holiness was openly designated the Son of God in power [in a striking, triumphant and miraculous manner] by His resurrection from the dead, even Jesus Christ our Lord (the Messiah, the Anointed One)." Romans 1:3-4 from The Amplified Bible
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
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06-04-2010, 09:48 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is
I think what Paul was saying in stating "justified in Spirit" has to do with a lesson to us about godliness. How to achieve godliness is a mystery. Paul is not teaching the Godhead when he wrote 1 Tim 3:16. He is teaching godliness . Even God manifest in flesh as humanity had to be justified in Spirit and not self works in order to be godly as man. We find this when Jesus said He did nothing of himself, but the Father did the works in Him. How much more do we need to realize that it is not OUR human efforts and goodness that make us live godly lives, but God's SPIRIT in side us?
If you go through Timothy's letter, it's all about godliness and grace. Endless genealogies are contrasted from godly edifying in chapter 1. While Law was intended to provide unfeigned faith, love and a good conscience, grace was abounding with those very things. Chapter 2 tells us to pray for leaders, for this is godly.
Chapter three gets into the bishops and deacons and shows how they must be godly. And then we come to 3:16 which shows that even God manifested in flesh as a man had to be justified in Spirit in order to be godly. It's explaining the mystery of how to be godly. God's incarnation showed the answer.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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06-04-2010, 09:49 AM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Re: Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
I think what Paul was saying in stating "justified in Spirit" has to do with a lesson to us about godliness. How to achieve godliness is a mystery. Paul is not teaching the Godhead when he wrote 1 Tim 3:16. He is teaching godliness . Even God manifest in flesh as humanity had to be justified in Spirit and not self works in order to be godly as man. We find this when Jesus said He did nothing of himself, but the Father did the works in Him. How much more do we need to realize that it is not OUR human efforts and goodness that make us live godly lives, but God's SPIRIT in side us?
If you go through Timothy's letter, it's all about godliness and grace. Endless genealogies are contrasted from godly edifying in chapter 1. While Law was intended to provide unfeigned faith, love and a good conscience, grace was abounding with those very things. Chapter 2 tells us to pray for leaders, for this is godly.
Chapter three gets into the bishops and deacons and shows how they must be godly. And then we come to 3:16 which shows that even God manifested in flesh as a man had to be justified in Spirit in order to be godly. It's explaining the mystery of how to be godly. God's incarnation showed the answer. |
Thanks, Bro. Blume
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06-04-2010, 09:51 AM
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but made himself of no reputation
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: middle Atlantic region
Posts: 2,091
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Re: Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Could God being manifest in the flesh and justified in the Spirit be tied in to Romans 1:3-4 which says, "3 [The Gospel] regarding His Son, Who as to the flesh (His human nature) was descended from David,
4 And [as to His divine nature] according to the Spirit of holiness was openly designated the Son of God in power [in a striking, triumphant and miraculous manner] by His resurrection from the dead, even Jesus Christ our Lord (the Messiah, the Anointed One)." Romans 1:3-4 from The Amplified Bible |
I would say, YES, the justification pertained to the anointed one who is the SON of God.
The problem for the "same PERSON" folks that Prax speaks for, is that you have the SELF-EXISTENT one being justified by ?? His own spirit?
The self-existent one (the I AM which sent Moses to Pharoh), is not justified by anything.
The SENT ONE was (and IS) justified by the Spirit.
__________________
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
Last edited by tbpew; 06-04-2010 at 09:55 AM.
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06-04-2010, 09:53 AM
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but made himself of no reputation
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: middle Atlantic region
Posts: 2,091
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Re: Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
I think what Paul was saying in stating "justified in Spirit" has to do with a lesson to us about godliness. How to achieve godliness is a mystery. Paul is not teaching the Godhead when he wrote 1 Tim 3:16. He is teaching godliness . Even God manifest in flesh as humanity had to be justified in Spirit and not self works in order to be godly as man. We find this when Jesus said He did nothing of himself, but the Father did the works in Him. How much more do we need to realize that it is not OUR human efforts and goodness that make us live godly lives, but God's SPIRIT in side us?
If you go through Timothy's letter, it's all about godliness and grace. Endless genealogies are contrasted from godly edifying in chapter 1. While Law was intended to provide unfeigned faith, love and a good conscience, grace was abounding with those very things. Chapter 2 tells us to pray for leaders, for this is godly.
Chapter three gets into the bishops and deacons and shows how they must be godly. And then we come to 3:16 which shows that even God manifested in flesh as a man had to be justified in Spirit in order to be godly. It's explaining the mystery of how to be godly. God's incarnation showed the answer. |
OK.
And to this I would SHOUT...
Godliness does NOT PERTAIN to God! (no more then anyone would say "God's spirit is anointed)
Godliness is a quality that acknowledges the CREATURE is partaker in the DIVINE PURPOSE.
__________________
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
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06-04-2010, 09:55 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew
OK.
And to this I would SHOUT...
Godliness does NOT PERTAIN to God! (no more then anyone would say "God's spirit is anointed)
Godliness is a quality that acknowledges the CREATURE is partaker in the DIVINE PURPOSE.
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Right! 
Godliness is a mystery, and Jesus' incarnation shows us the answer.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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06-04-2010, 12:18 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Could God being manifest in the flesh and justified in the Spirit be tied in to Romans 1:3-4 which says, "3 [The Gospel] regarding His Son, Who as to the flesh (His human nature) was descended from David,
4 And [as to His divine nature] according to the Spirit of holiness was openly designated the Son of God in power [in a striking, triumphant and miraculous manner] by His resurrection from the dead, even Jesus Christ our Lord (the Messiah, the Anointed One)." Romans 1:3-4 from The Amplified Bible |
I don't know but there's something wrong with the idea that God can't be shown to be righteous in His own Spirit and be God if you ask me
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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06-04-2010, 12:25 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Can Someone be "Apostolic" and Deny Christ is
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew
I would say, YES, the justification pertained to the anointed one who is the SON of God.
The problem for the "same PERSON" folks that Prax speaks for, is that you have the SELF-EXISTENT one being justified by ?? His own spirit?
The self-existent one (the I AM which sent Moses to Pharoh), is not justified by anything.
The SENT ONE was (and IS) justified by the Spirit.
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Let's assume the correct translation is "justified by his own Spirit", you still have not said what is the problem with that. Three different posts so far and they all pretty much add up to "I don't the sound of that", without any statement actually explaining what is wrong with that .
Is the I AM Just? Is the I AM Righteous? How do we know? We know because we know He is God and HE says so? Well that is pretty much God (a Spirit) showing Himself to be Just or Righteous by His own word. We also know by His actions, He has proven Himself to the world Righteous, and you have a problem with that?
But why would that alone be a problem? Do you also have a problem with the idea of God being manifested in flesh? God being seen of angels? God being preached to the world or God being received up into glory?
This thread WAS supposed to be a poll, but I see Im going to have to move it to the debate area. BTW If anyone wants to debate their position that Jesus is not God, we have made a way for you to debate one other person in a one on one debate, uninterrupted and with a definite beginning and ending so it won't just be a rambling flame war back and forth, then the rest of us can judge. Anyone UP for the challenge'? If so visit the sub forum and offer a challenge
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Last edited by Praxeas; 06-04-2010 at 12:58 PM.
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