Whats The Point Of The Resurrection Of The Dead?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by easter

Why is there animals in Heaven?

The point is that Hades is THE GRAVE.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Gehenna, Sheol , and Hades are all translated as hell. Animals got to he Hades/grave/hell, but Gehenna/hell is hellfire for sinners alone.

Ok what Im trying to get across is that Jesus soul went to Hades. How is it that sheep are there also?

[easter]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok what Im trying to get across is that Jesus soul went to Hades. How is it that sheep are there also?

Where is this in scripture?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by easter

Where is this in scripture?

12: Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.
13: This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.
14: Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. Psalms 49:12-14

The word "grave" is how the translators rendered the Hebrew word Sheol. The Greek word for Sheol is Hades.

Thats why earlier I gave that verse out of the Septuigent the Greek Old Testament. It shows that Sheol and Hades are the same thing.

They have laid them as sheep in Hades; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning, and their help shall fail in Hades from their glory. 15 But God shall deliver my soul from the power of Hades, when he shall receive me. Psalms 49: 14-15

We see from this scripture that both men and animals at death go to this place called Hades. The KJV rightly translated it as "the grave".

That Jesus soul went there upon death was my point in using this in an earlier post.

25: For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in HADES neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Acts 2:25-27

Peter plainly says the SOUL of Jesus was in Hades. The same place sheep go when they die.

The point again being that Hades is the grave. Souls go to the grave at death. To use Bible terminology they "sleep" until they come back to life at the resurrection.

And thats the purpose of the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.

That the souls of men would not be left in Hades!

Many believe Jesus emptied Hades of the righteous saints when he went back to Heaven.

Paul taught the victory over Hades (place where souls sleep) does not happen UNTIL THE RESURRECTION.

15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 But when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then what is written will happen:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”*
15:55 “Death, where is your sting?
Hades, where is your victory?”* 1 Cor. 15:51-55

Notice verse 55 indicates Hades having the victory UNTIL THE LAST TRUMPET SOUNDS. The trumpet announcing the resurrection of the dead!


It is RIGHT THEN that Jesus saying is fulfilled that the "gates of Hades will not prevail against the Church".

[easter]

Originally Posted by easter

Ok that's not a fair question up there above...

Ok Michael let me try to explain this to you one last time,

When Jesus told Nicodemus that flesh was born of flesh.This is the soul.I have a soul,you have a soul and all living things that have breath in them have a soul...You are right up to this point.So when breath leaves a soul that is the life force of the soul.

Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to have eternal life a person has got to be born of the Spirit.

Flesh is born of the Flesh(Man born of Man)
Spirit is born of the Spirit(Spirit born of Holy Spirit)

What exactly is Jesus saying here?Don't worry, Nicodemus must have looked puzzled because Jesus told him Marvel not.
Jesus did not want Nicodemus to wonder at this because this is the very understanding for your salvation in Christ.

Jesus died to pay for all our sins.Sin is in the flesh.The only atonement for sin is through the blood of Christ.
Now Jesus told his disciples that unless he went to the Father the comforter would not come.The comforter is the Holy Spirit of God.
Before the Holy Spirit,people were still under the law and since sin is in the flesh the law could not cover the sin because sin is in the flesh.This right here is the very reason Jesus had to shed his blood to cover the sin.

Sin is why flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of Heaven.
OK...

So when the comforter (Holy Spirit came he filled the believers with his presence.So in order for the Holy Spirit to come into a person they have got to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
When a person accepts Jesus the Holy Spirit will live in him and therefore the person is born again.Not of flesh but of the Holy Spirit.
The very Spirit of God living in each believer and giving eternal life to the born again Spirit of the believer.

Now when this person dies,their physical body dies but the very Spirit of God that gave life to the spirit in the dead believer will never die.The reason is this spirit of God(Holy Spirit) is how you were born of the Spirit(Child of God) and to say that the spirit dies and stays in the grave would be like saying God is slowly dying in each believer.

So in other words when sin enter the world so did death.The spirit is eternal and when sin enter the flesh so did death.God being spirit sent his son to cover the sin.God then sent the Holy Spirit to give back the eternal Spirit in a child of God.This born again spirit is for ever with the Lord the instant it leaves the sinful flesh.
The unbelievers also have a spirit but not of God.You see God gave each of his children a new spirit.God knows each of his children and searches the heart because he knows the spirit because it was born of him.
That is why he will tell the unsaved"Depart from me I never knew you.It's because he knows each and every one of his children because they are born again from God.

Michael did you read this post?This is all based on scripture.Every bit of it.

[easter]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

12: Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.
13: This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.
14: Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. Psalms 49:12-14

The word "grave" is how the translators rendered the Hebrew word Sheol. The Greek word for Sheol is Hades.

Thats why earlier I gave that verse out of the Septuigent the Greek Old Testament. It shows that Sheol and Hades are the same thing.

They have laid them as sheep in Hades; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning, and their help shall fail in Hades from their glory. 15 But God shall deliver my soul from the power of Hades, when he shall receive me. Psalms 49: 14-15

We see from this scripture that both men and animals at death go to this place called Hades. The KJV rightly translated it as "the grave".

That Jesus soul went there upon death was my point in using this in an earlier post.

25: For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in HADES neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Acts 2:25-27

Peter plainly says the SOUL of Jesus was in Hades. The same place sheep go when they die.

The point again being that Hades is the grave. Souls go to the grave at death. To use Bible terminology they "sleep" until they come back to life at the resurrection.

And thats the purpose of the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.

That the souls of men would not be left in Hades!

Many believe Jesus emptied Hades of the righteous saints when he went back to Heaven.

Paul taught the victory over Hades (place where souls sleep) does not happen UNTIL THE RESURRECTION.

15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 But when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then what is written will happen:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”*
15:55 “Death, where is your sting?
Hades, where is your victory?”* 1 Cor. 15:51-55

Notice verse 55 indicates Hades having the victory UNTIL THE LAST TRUMPET SOUNDS. The trumpet announcing the resurrection of the dead!


It is RIGHT THEN that Jesus saying is fulfilled that the "gates of Hades will not prevail against the Church".

Psalms 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave;death shall feed on them;and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning;and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

You have taken this totally out of context to fit what your teaching.This verse is talking about Godless people.Comparing them to no more then a dead sheep because they are Godless.Death feeds on the physical body of every living creature.Their beauty will be gone when death takes the life.

Read Psalms 49:20 Man that is in honour,and understandeth not,is like the beast that perish.

This verse says that man in a position of honer but lacks understanding in God is the same as an animal without Human concept.

[easter]

Let the reader judge for himself.The doctrine has been examined on both sides.Scripture has been torn apart and put back in to context.For the final evidence I will enter...

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee,TODAY shalt thou be with me in Paradise.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into Paradise,and heard unspeakable words,which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear,let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches;To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.

As a foot note concerning Luke 23:43 (I'm taking Jesus's word over it all)
also concerning Revelation 2:7 The bride of Christ is the church and all born again Christians make up the Church.

Jesus did not tell the thief," On the day of resurrection but today.It don't sound like the thief was doing any soul sleeping.

[Michael The Disciple]

Did Jesus meet the thief on the cross that same day in Paradise?

Why did he say this three days later?

"Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." [JOHN 20:17]

Jesus had not yet ascended into Heaven three days later. If he told the thief he would be with him that day in Paradise we have a problem.

Yet if we realize the commas in scripture were added by MEN and not the Holy Spirit the problem goes away. It could just as easily read like this:

"And Jesus said unto him. 'Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in paradise." [LUKE 23:43 -- punctuation adjusted ]

If so there is no need to question why Jesus did not ascend into Heaven that very day.

The thief asked the Lord "Remember me when you come into your Kingdom".

Since the Lord did not rise from the dead until three days passed obviously Jesus would not have said they would ascend to Heaven that very day.

[Michael The Disciple]

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into Paradise,and heard unspeakable words,which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear,let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches;To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.

I dont see how these scriptures prove one goes to Heaven at death apart from the resurrection of the dead.

[Michael The Disciple]

Many scriptures indicate souls can die:

14: And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Gen. 17:14

19: Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20: Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. Gen. 19:19-20

15: Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel. Exodus 12:15

19: Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. Ex. 12:19

14: Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Exodus 30:14

20: But the soul that eateth of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, that pertain unto the LORD, having his uncleanness upon him, even that soul shall be cut off from his people. Lev. 7:20

21: Moreover the soul that shall touch any unclean thing, as the uncleanness of man, or any unclean beast, or any abominable unclean thing, and eat of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which pertain unto the LORD, even that soul shall be cut off from his people. Lev. 7:21

25: For whosoever eateth the fat of the beast, of which men offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, even the soul that eateth it shall be cut off from his people. Lev. 7:25

27: Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people. Lev. 7:27

8: Therefore every one that eateth it shall bear his iniquity, because he hath profaned the hallowed thing of the LORD: and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Lev. 19:8

There are many more such scriptures but to an interested person this will be sufficient.

The proof is OVERWHELMING that the soul is MORTAL as opposed to being IMMORTAL.