Seconds of Pre Embryonic Life of Jesus Christ?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Ok Sean.

If I embrace your doctrine , if I understood and embraced your revelation, would it mean that I am:

A) Saved,
B) More enlightened or even more saved than the average Apostolic,
C) More enlightened, but this knowledge does not affect or effect salvation.


If I DON'T embrace your doctrine, would it mean that I am:

A) Unsaved,
B) Barely saved or saved but ignorant of one of the Biblical truths
C) Unsaved and willfully defiant since God's Nature is revealed all around us, with me choosing to be rebellious.

Neither.

All I am doing is simplifying my understanding of God and His relation to His begotten son in a 1st century, pre-H/U mindset.

I want to personally know Jesus.

This means that when I pray, not attempting to strip him of his individuality that I see in his word.

I now acknowledge him as per these verses, and pray to him alone.

I visualize the glorified human Jesus as my only recipient of my prayers.(Never his inner God).

I know that this is the way to access God(through Christ).

This mindset has brought me peace and harmony when reading any verses exclaiming 2 persons.

I now do not think that "trins" translated the Bible, but that God wants us to see his(Jesus') individuality.

In summary....trins missed his individuality(doctrine) in the 4th century and modern oneness missed his individuality(doctrine) in the 20th century.

If his individuality(doctrine) was recognized as per scripture, before commentary changed the course of Christianity, trin/oneness would have never existed at all, and all would have been in the unity of the faith.

In my opinion, we blame satan for creating trinity in the 4th century to trip up man, but we use the very foundational building blocks of trin doctrine for our own(H/U doctrine).

[Sean]

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:


Could the Godhead doctrine still be imperfected?

I think so.

[Godsdrummer]

Ok you guys have been going at this for several pages now. As far as I can see there is no end. There can be no arguing over this subject when the scripture says “this which is in the womb Mary is of the holy spirit”. Or the spirit overshadowed Mary and that which in Mary is of God”. If we believe that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, than we must believe that he is a Miracle, does not having a mother that is human and a father that is God make him part human and part God from the beginning?
Jesus was not his own person, in that God dwelt in side of him from birth. But that does not take away his humanity side. Because he was born of a human Mother. He was God from the very beginning. But you cannot put God into one single place because he is spirit. Not only was he dwelling in Jesus, he was still God everywhere.
To make oneness a doctrine that one must believe is essential to salvation is the biggest travesty, for that matter to make trinity a doctrine of salvation is also a travesty. Scripture only says, “unless you believe I am” it does not specify any thing else. This was Jesus speaking when he was on earth.
We can go on debating our various ideas, but when it comes down to it, it all comes to whether Jesus was “I AM”. And if we believe that.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sean?

Does the supposed pastor at the supposed "UPCI" church you attend believe what you believe?

He attends a church?

[houston]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Scripture only says, “unless you believe I am” it does not specify any thing else. This was Jesus speaking when he was on earth.
We can go on debating our various ideas, but when it comes down to it, it all comes to whether Jesus was “I AM”. And if we believe that.

I AM, who, specifically? The hearers understood something that made them want to kill Him.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Ok you guys have been going at this for several pages now. As far as I can see there is no end. There can be no arguing over this subject when the scripture says “this which is in the womb Mary is of the holy spirit”. Or the spirit overshadowed Mary and that which in Mary is of God”. If we believe that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, than we must believe that he is a Miracle, does not having a mother that is human and a father that is God make him part human and part God from the beginning?
Jesus was not his own person, in that God dwelt in side of him from birth. But that does not take away his humanity side. Because he was born of a human Mother. He was God from the very beginning. But you cannot put God into one single place because he is spirit. Not only was he dwelling in Jesus, he was still God everywhere.
To make oneness a doctrine that one must believe is essential to salvation is the biggest travesty, for that matter to make trinity a doctrine of salvation is also a travesty. Scripture only says, “unless you believe I am” it does not specify any thing else. This was Jesus speaking when he was on earth.
We can go on debating our various ideas, but when it comes down to it, it all comes to whether Jesus was “I AM”. And if we believe that.

Well, the question to me is this..is the "I Am" speaking through his son or is the " I Am" speaking AS His son?

I think we must go to Jesus as he explains it in John 14.

[aegsm76]

Or as it is given in John!

4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?

5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

[Sean]

Right, the God that dwelled inside him and spoke through him pér John 14 is powerful.

[Sean]

The "I Am" inside him left him on the cross before he died.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Sean

Right, the God that dwelled inside him and spoke through him pér John 14 is powerful.

It is amazing how you understand things that even the disciples did not!

WOW, how perceptive...