Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[Sabby]

Sister Bobbye Wendell preached the introductory message at the Oregon camp eons ago as the warm up act for the main speaker (Br Fauss I believe). She tore the place up, conviction filling the tabernacle. God wasn't done using her, when the MC (a well-known district presbyter) leaped to the pulpit to keep the meeting "On Time".
All I can say is, some people don't WANT to be convicted or moved by a female preacher and that was a perfect example.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Huh? Please re-read what I posted lol.

What dose the word of God being authoritative have to do with someone exercising authority over someone? That is two different things. The word of God and a woman trying to play the role of the man in her relationship with her husband

Looks like we're missing one another here. You posted that women in Paul's day were finally being allowed to learn. I pointed out that it would be strange for them to be just learning....& teaching/preaching at the same time!

The Word of God is inherently authoritative & Paul forbids women [wife & husband are not mentioned in this text...I checked 30 translations (spare me Young's)] from excercising authority over men.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Sounds like you found a pet issue to make yourself feel important about, RDP.

It's your trumpeting issue because it's one you've found an identity in maybe.

There's many words of Paul's that we just are uncertain what was truly going on or what it meant. Even though we may be persuaded one way, we should have enough grace to others about the subject to be tolerant and loving. We are united by the Gospel and the Cross. If you think you've mastered a Roman-style letter written to an audience 2,000 years ago, a letter responding to a dialogue piece that is missing (one-sided conversation) and you want to stake your life's blood on being right about it all, then go for it. The rest of us continue to humbly learn, and realize there is room for diversity of opinion on these issues.

I can say "I simply believe" the Bible for various issues that we'd probably not agree on. Not all of it is so "simple."

"Trumpeting issue"?? Too funny....believe whatever you will...think I'll stick w/ the Book!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Thayer just gives dictionary definitions. BTW the NET bible includes Daniel Wallace on committee.

Aware & Daniel Wallace is DEAD against women preachers...I know this for a fact......

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Here. Ejjoy,"speak"
λαλέω impf. ἐλάλουν; fut. λαλήσω; 1 aor. ἐλάλησα; pf. λελάληκα. Pass.: 1 fut. λαληθήσομαι; 1 aor. ἐλαλήθην; pf. λελάλημαι (Soph.+). In older Gk. usu. of informal communication ranging from engagement in small talk to chattering and babbling, hence opp. of λέγω; in later Gk the trend, expressed esp. in the pseudepigr. and our lit., is toward equation with λέγω and broadening of the earlier usage.
① to make a sound, sound, give forth sounds/tones (Aesop fab. 248b H.//146 H-H.//202 Ch.//v.l. 141 P.) that form a kind of speech, esp. of inanimate things (e.g. of the echo, Cass. Dio 74, 21, 14; of streams of water Achilles Tat. 2, 14, 8; OdeSol 11:6 τὸ ὕδωρ τὸ λαλοῦν), of thunder ἐλάλησαν αἱ βρονταί Rv 10:4ab. ἐλάλησαν αἱ βρονταὶ τὰς ἑαυτῶν φωνάς vs. 3. Of a trumpet 4:1 (cp. Aristot., De Aud. p. 801a, 29 διὰ τούτων=flutes, etc.; Achilles Tat. 2, 14, 8 of the κιθάρα). Of the blood of Christ, that speaks more effectively than that of Abel (Gen 4:10) Hb 12:24; s. 11:4 (Goodsp., Probs. 188). Cp. J 12:29.
② to utter words, talk, speak, of pers.
ⓐ of the act of speaking, intr.
α. (be able to) speak; to have and use the faculty of speech, in contrast to one who is incapable of speaking (cp. Ps 113:13; 134:16; 3 Macc 4:16; TestSol 10:3 C λ. ἀνθρωπίνως) Mt 9:33; 12:22; 15:31; Mk 7:37; Lk 1:20, 64; 11:14. ἐλάλει ὀρθῶς he could speak plainly (in contrast to the unintelligible utterances of a deaf-mute) Mk 7:35.
β. speak, express oneself (Aesop, Fab. 146 H-H. et al.) οὐ γὰρ ὑμεῖς ἐστε οἱ λαλοῦντες it is not you who (will) speak Mt 10:20 (cp. TestAbr A 6 p. 83, 5 [Stone p. 14] ἄγγελος κυρίου ἐστὶν ὁ λαλῶν; AscIs 1, 7, τὸ πνεῦμα … τὸ λαλοῦν ἐν ἐμοί). προφῆται δύο ἢ τρεῖς λαλείτωσαν two or three prophets are to express themselves 1 Cor 14:29. ἔτι αὐτοῦ λαλοῦντος while he was still speaking Mt 17:5; 26:47; Mk 5:35; 14:43; Lk 8:49; 22:47, 60. μηκέτι αὐτοῦ λαλοῦντος AcPl Ha 5, 14 of a lion (?); μηκέτι λαλήσας 10, 25=MartPl Aa I 115, 16.—Lk 5:4; 1 Cor 14:11ab, al.—In contrast to listening (Plut., Mor. 502c λαλοῦντι μὲν πρὸς τ. ἀκούοντας μὴ ἀκούοντι δὲ τ. λαλούντων) Js 1:19; cp. 1 Cor 14:35.—In contrast to keeping silent (Lucian, Vit. Auct. 3) οὐκ ἤφιεν λαλεῖν τ. δαιμόνια Mk 1:34; Lk 4:41 (λέγειν v.l.). λάλει καὶ μὴ σιωπήσῃς Ac 18:9. οὐ γὰρ ἐπιτρέπεται λαλείν (women) are not permitted to express themselves 1 Cor 14:34f (cp. Plut., Mor. 142d: a woman ought to take care of her home and be quiet; for she should either converse with her husband or through him). This pass. refers to expression in a congregational assembly, which would engage not only in worship but in discussion of congregational affairs; the latter appears to be implied here, for it was contrary to custom for Hellenic women, in contrast to their privileges in certain cultic rites (cp. 1 Cor 11:5), to participate in public deliberations (s. Danker, Benefactor 164, w. ref. to IG II, 1369, 107–9; for other views s. comm.).—In contrast to acting Js 2:12.
γ. The pers. to whom or with whom one is speaking is mentioned in various ways: in the dat. λ. τινί speak to or with someone (Aristoph., Equ. 348; Philemon Com. 11 Kock; Menander, Periciromene 220 σοί; Aelian, Ep. 14 p. 181, 1; Diog. L. 9, 64; pseudepigr.; Just., A I, 63, 14. λ. ἑαυτῷ=with oneself; Lev 1:1f; Ezk 33:30b) Mt 12:46ab, 47; 13:10; Mk 16:19; Lk 1:22; 24:6, 32; J 4:26 (cp. CB I/2, 566f no. 467–69 Ἀθάνατος Ἐπιτύνχανος says of himself: ἐγὼ εἶμαι ὁ λαλῶν πάντα); 9:29; 12:29; 15:22; Ac 9:27; Ro 7:1; 1 Cor 3:1; 1 Th 2:16; Hb 1:1f; by πρός and the acc. (Plut. Mor. 502c [s. β above]; Ps.-Lucian, Asin. 44; Gen 27:6; Ex 30:11, 17, 22; JosAs 14:7 al.; ParJer 3:5; ApcMos 28; SibOr 3, 669; Just., D. 27, 3) Lk 1:19, 55; Ac 4:1; 8:26; 11:20; 26:31 (cp. Lat. ire in consilium; Taubenschlag, OpMin. II 725 [the pap ref. is unsatisfactory]); by μετά and the gen. (Gen 35:13) Mk 6:50; J 4:27; 9:37; 14:30; Rv 1:12; 10:8; 17:1; 21:9, 15. μὴ διαλίπῃς λαλῶν εἰς τὰ ὦτα τῶν ἁγίων Hv 4, 3, 6.—The pers. or thing spoken about is expressed by περί w. the gen. (PSI 361, 5 [251 B.C.] λαλήσας περί μου; PFay 126, 4 [c. 200 A.D.]; Gen 19:21; Ezk 33:30a; TestAbr B 8 p. 112 14 [Stone p. 72]; TestJob 46:7; JosAs 6:2 al.; Philo, Fuga 33, 30a) J 8:26; 12:41; Ac 2:31; Hb 2:5; 4:8.—τινὶ περί τινος (PPetr II, 13 (6), 9 [III B.C.]) Lk 2:38; 9:11; pass. Ac 22:10.
δ. The speaking or uttering can be more closely defined: κακῶς, καλῶς J 18:23. ὡς νήπιος 1 Cor 13:11. ὡς δράκων (hissed?) Rv 13:11. στόμα πρὸς στόμα face to face (cp. Num 12:8; ApcEsdr 6:6 p. 31, 10 Tdf.) 2J 12; 3J 14. εἰς ἀέρα 1 Cor 14:9. κατὰ κύριον 2 Cor 11:17. ἐκ τοῦ περισσεύματος τ. καρδίας τὸ στόμα λαλεῖ Mt 12:34; Lk 6:45. ἐκ τῆς γῆς J 3:31 (cp. Lev 1:1 λ. ἐκ τῆς σκηνῆς). ἐκ τῶν ἰδίων J 8:44. παρρησίᾳ 7:13, 26. ἐν παρρησίᾳ 16:29. ἐν παραβολαῖς Mt 13:10, 13. χωρὶς παραβολῆς Mk 4:34. λ. (ἐν) ψαλμοῖς speak in psalms Eph 5:19. Of prophets λ. ἐν πνεύματι D 11:7 (Just., D. 7, 1). Of God λ. διὰ στόματος τ. προφητῶν Lk 1:70; cp. Ac 28:25.
ε. as subst. ptc. τὰ λαλούμενα (Paradox. Vat. 2 Keller; Jos., Ant. 16, 321; Just., D. 7, 2) ὑπό τινος Ac 13:45; 16:14. τὰ λελαλημένα (EpArist 299; cp. TestSol 20:21 τὰ … λαληθέντα μοι) αὐτῇ παρὰ κυρίου Lk 1:45.—For λαλεῖν γλώσσῃ and λ. γλώσσαις s. γλῶσσα 3.
ⓑ of speech with ref. to what is expressed (the ability to λ. can generate λόγοι Aesop, Vi. G 7f P.), trans. speak and thereby assert, proclaim, say τὶ someth. (X., Cyr. 1, 4, 1 πολλά; Demosth. 45, 77 μέγα; Paradox. Vat. 2 τὰ ὀνόματα) τὰ ῥήματα τ. θεοῦ J 3:34. ῥῆμα Mt 12:36; cp. J 8:20 (JosAs 14:14 al.; ParJer 3:4.). τὸν λόγον Mk 8:32; J 12:48; Ac 4:29, 31 (λαλ. τι μετὰ παρρησίας as Jos., Ant. 16, 113); 8:25; 14:25; 16:6, 32. τὰ μεγαλεῖα τ. θεοῦ Ac 2:11 (TestJob 38:1). βλασφημίας Lk 5:21; cp. Ac 6:11 (JosAs 13:9; Just., D. 32, 3). σοφίαν 1 Cor 2:6f. μυστήρια 14:2; cp. Col 4:3. τὰ μὴ δέοντα 1 Ti 5:13. τὸ στόμα λαλεῖ ὑπέρογκα Jd 16; μεγάλα Rv 13:5. τί Mt 10:19; Mk 13:11; J 12:49. ὸ̔ λαλεῖ Mk 11:23; cp. J 10:6; 12:50. ταῦτα Lk 24:36; J 8:28, 30; 12:36; 17:1; AcPl Ha 10, 11. ἐλάλησέν τι περὶ σοῦ πονηρόν Ac 28:21 (cp. 3 Km 22:8, 13b; JosAs 12:5). ἐσύρετο μηδὲν λαλῶν (Paul) let himself be dragged in without saying a word AcPl Ha 4, 11.—Pass. λαλεῖταί τι someth. is said, proclaimed, reported (cp. the ins for mother and brother [APF 5, 1913, 169 no. 24, 8] ὧν καὶ ἡ σωφροσύνη κατὰ τ. κόσμον λελάληται, also Ps 86:3) Mt 26:13; Mk 14:9; cp. Hb 2:3; 9:19 ἡ λαλουμένη διδαχή Ac 17:19. ὁ λαληθεὶς λόγος Hb 2:2. ἐλαλήθη ὅτι 11:18 (B-D-F §397, 3).—Oft., in addition, the pers. spoken to is mentioned, in the dat. ἄλλην παραβολὴν ἐλάλησεν αὐτοῖς Mt 13:33. ἐλάλει αὐτοῖς τὸν λόγον he proclaimed the word to them Mk 2:2; 4:33; J 15:3; Ac 11:19. ἐλάλησεν αὐτοῖς πολλὰ ἐν παραβολαῖς Mt 13:3; cp. vs. 34. τὸ ῥῆμα … αὐτοῖς Lk 2:50; cp. J 6:63.—8:40 (ἀλήθειαν λ. as Eph 4:25 below); 14:25; 15:11; 16:1, 4, 6. ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ οἰκοδομήν 1 Cor 14:3; w. πρός and acc. (Gen 18:19; Zech 8:16) λόγους … ἐλάλησα πρὸς ὑμᾶς Lk 24:44 (cp. Dt 10:4).—Ac 3:22; 11:14; 1 Th 2:2; w. ἐν and the dat. σοφίαν λαλοῦμεν ἐν τ. τελείοις we discourse of wisdom among those who are mature p 583 1 Cor 2:6; w. μετά and the gen. λαλεῖτε ἀλήθειαν ἕκαστος μετὰ τοῦ πλησίον αὐτοῦ Eph 4:25 (cp. Zech 8:16). ὅσα ἂν λαλήσω μετὰ σοῦ Hs 5, 3, 2; cp. Hs ins.—W. the speaking definitely characterized ταῦτα ἐν παροιμίαις λελάληκα ὑμῖν J 16:25a. κατὰ ἄνθρωπον ταῦτα λαλῶ 1 Cor 9:8. ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ θέλω πέντε λόγους τῷ νοΐ μου λαλῆσαι 14:19. πάντα ἐν ἀληθείᾳ ἐλαλήσαμεν ὑμῖν 2 Cor 7:14. ἀφόβως τὸν λόγον τ. θεοῦ λαλεῖν Phil 1:14. λ. τι εἰς τὰ ὦτά τινος communicate someth. to someone personally (cp. Dt 5:1) Hv 3, 8, 11 (for 4, 3, 6 s. 2aγ above). λ. τι πρὸς τὸ οὖς whisper someth. in someone’s ear (so that no one else hears it; cp. Jos., Ant. 6, 165) Lk 12:3.
③ In a number of passages the content of the speaking is introduced by λέγων (s. λέγω 1bθא), just as in the OT (Gen 34:8; 41:9; 42:22; Ex 31:12; Lev 20:1; TestAbr B 12 p. 116, 28 [Stone p. 80]; TestJob 7:1 al.; ParJer 1:1; 1:6 al.; ApcMos 16) Mt 13:3; 14:27; 23:1; 28:18; J 8:12; Ac 8:26; Rv 4:1; 17:1 al. Optional: εἶπον, q.v., end.—B. 1254. DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed.) (582–583). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

3281 λαλέω (laleō): vb.; ≡ DBLHebr 1819; Str 2980—1. LN 33.70 speak, talk; in some contexts with the semantic focus on the telling (i.e., the utterance or breaking of sound waves instead of the content) (Mt 9:33; 13:3; 23:1; Mk 16:17, 19 v.r.); 2. LN 33.91 πρὸς τὸ οὖς λαλέω (pros to ous laleō), whisper, formally, talk in the ear (Lk 12:3+)
Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

33.70 λαλέω: to speak or talk, with the possible implication of more informal usage (though this cannot be clearly and consistently shown from NT contexts)—‘to speak, to say, to talk, to tell.’ ἐλάλησεν αὐτοῖς πολλὰ ἐν παραβολαῖς ‘he used parables to tell them many things’ or ‘he spoke to them about many things using parables’ Mt 13:3; τότε ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐλάλησεν τοῖς ὄχλοις καὶ τοῖς μαθηταῖς αὐτοῦ ‘then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples’ Mt 23:1.
Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (396). New York: United Bible societies.

λαλέω speak, talk, say; preach, proclaim; tell; be able to speak; address, converse (with); promise (of God); sound (of thunder)
Newman, B. M. (1993). A Concise Greek-English dictionary of the New Testament. (106). Stuttgart, Germany: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft; United Bible Societies.

Yes, & did you see the meaning "preach,".....that I've already told the folks on this forum about? Moreover, for about the 10th time now, this word is actually translated as "preach" 6x's. Guess everyone will just plod along like it's not there!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

λαλέω laleō; from λαλός lalos (talkative); to talk:—made(1), proclaiming(1), said(6), say(5), saying(7), says(2), speak(95), speak forth(1), speaking(54), speaks(25), spoke(44), spoken(38), stating(1), talked(1), talking(5), tell(1), telling(1), things spoken(2), told(7), uttered(1), whispered*(1).
Thomas, R. L. (1998). New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek dictionaries : Updated edition. Anaheim: Foundation Publications, Inc.

λαλέω V 360-325-229-189-86=1189
Gn 12,4; 16,13; 17,3.22.23
to speak [abs.] Gn 18,30; to tell [τι] Gn 24,33; to tell to [τινι] Gn 12,4; id. [πρός τινα] Gn 16,13; id. [πρός τι] (metaph.) Nm 20,8; id. [τί τινι] Gn 28,15; id. [τι πρός τινα] Gn 39,19; to proclaim, to say [τι] 1 Kgs 22,8; to speak repeatedly, to repeat (prayers) Jb 40,27
ἐλάλησεν πάντα τὰ ῥήματα ταῦτα εἰς τὰ ὦτα αὐτῶν he spoke all these words in their ears, he communicated all these words to them personally Gn 20,8; λάλησον εἰς τὴν καρδίαν τῶν δούλων σου speak comfortingly to your servants, comfort your servants 2 Sm 19,8; λαλῆσαι ἐπὶ τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι to speak in your name Ex 5,23; ὅτι κύριος ἐλάλησεν καλὰ περὶ Ισραηλ for the Lord spoke good about Israel Nm 10,29
*Nm 16,1 καὶ ἐλάλησε and he said-ויקרה? or-ויקרא for MT ויקח and he took; *1 Sm 14,26 λαλῶν speaking-דבר for MT דבשׁ honey; *Ps 21 (22),8 ἐλάλησαν they spoke-⋄ פטר (hiphil, LH) for MT יפטירו they drew (their lips), they made (faces at); *Jb 6,4 λαλεῖν-⋄ אלהII to speak, to complain for MT אלוה Eloah
Cf. DORIVAL 1994, 485; LEE, J. 1983 83.95–96; REPO 1951, 110; WEVERS 1990 72.95.304. 317.546; →TWNT
(→ἐκ-, κατα-, παρα-, προς-, συλ-)
Lust, J., Eynikel, E., & Hauspie, K. (2003). A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint : Revised Edition. Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft: Stuttgart.


λᾰλέω, f. ήσω, (λαλός) to talk, chat, prattle, babble, Ar., etc.:—generally, to talk, say, Soph.
2. c. acc. to talk of, Theocr.
3. in late Gr., just like λέγω, to speak, N.T., Thuc.:—Pass., λαληθήσεταί σοι it shall be told thee, N.T.
II. the proper sense, to chatter, is sometimes opp. to articulate speech, as of monkeys, λαλοῦσι μὲν φράζουσι δὲ οὔ Plut.; of locusts, to chirp, Theocr.
III. of musical sounds, αὐλῷ λαλεῖν Id. Hence λάληθρος
Liddell, H. (1996). A lexicon : Abridged from Liddell and Scott's Greek-English lexicon (463). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.


4. laléō, laliá.
a. This word, like “lull,” imitates childish babbling, and thus means “to prattle,” “to babble.” It is also used for the sounds of animals and musical instruments. As regards speech, it may denote sound rather than meaning, but also the ability to speak. In compounds the meaning is always “to prattle.”
b. laliá. The point here is excessive speech, i.e., chatter or garrulity.
Kittel, G., Friedrich, G., & Bromiley, G. W. (1995). Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (506). Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans.

2980. λαλέω lalĕō, lal-eh´-o; a prol. form of an otherwise obsol. verb; to talk:, i.e. utter words:—preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. comp. 3004.
2981. λαλιά lalia, lal-ee-ah´; from 2980; talk:—saying, speech.
Strong, J., S.T.D., LL.D. (2009). Vol. 1: A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (44). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Once again..."preach" is included...my point all along!

[Maximilian]

RDP, why do you believe the word "preach" is akin to sermonizing?

We don't really even have a picture of sermonizing happening in the NT assembly, do we?

My reservation would be more toward female pastoring eldership. But proclaiming the Gospel, exhorting, etc ?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

2. The Proposals
In 1863, J. B. Lightfoot anticipated the great discoveries of papyri parallels when he said, “If we could only recover letters that ordinary people wrote to each other without any thought of being literary, we should have the greatest possible help for the understanding of the language of the NT generally.”
Thirty-two years later, in 1895, Adolf Deissmann published his Bibelstudien-an innocently titled work that was to revolutionize the study of the NT. In this work (later translated into English under the title Bible Studies) Deissmann showed that the Greek of the NT was not a language invented by the Holy Spirit (Hermann Cremer had called it “Holy Ghost Greek,” largely because 10 percent of its vocabulary had no secular parallels).
Deissmann demonstrated that the vast bulk of NT vocabulary was to be found in the papyri. The pragmatic effect of Deissmann’s work was to render obsolete virtually all lexica and lexical commentaries written before the turn of the century. (Thayer’s lexicon, published in 1886, was consequently outdated shortly after it came off the press-yet, curiously, it is still relied on today by many NT students).


Wallace, D. B. (1999; 2002). Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics - Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament (25). Zondervan Publishing House and Galaxie Software.

Just a note, as I pointed out before, what I was quoting was not Thayer's lexicon commentary but the dictionary definitions.

Definitons given by the obsolete Thayer!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

We are to prophecy in the church too...

Prophecy is not a sermon as modern folks seem to believe. "PROPHESY to us, thou Christ, who smote thee?" Same word as I Cor. 11....did they expect Christ to "preach them a sermon,"...or to spontaneously reveal what He could not see w/ the natural eye? For about the 500th time now......................

[paul kimrey]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Paul, do you agree that there are many factors that go into reading what some call "the plain text?" That hermeneutic responsibility is important? That the words we use so plainly in English, were actually in Koine Greek? That understanding the culture, time and context for words helps inform their meaning? This is where the majority of the debate on those two scriptures stems from. And it's a very good debate to be sure.

Like you, I don't find women eldership to have NT precedent. I also see a very real resemblance with the social order God has placed in marriages, in the same manner as is given to the Church. Both are equal, but both have differing roles/expectations, at least as it concerns pastoring eldership.

That said, scholars like Gordon Fee make great points about these texts and issues that humble me just enough to be tolerant for differing views. I also believe that to be the Word of God.

When this situation is looked at more closely, we see that it's not so plain and simple after all. In fact, it can be quite complex and puzzling.

First of all let me say I don't profess to be any kind intellectual and am certainly not a great Bible scholar. I ve never been to Bible college or a seminary . I did however sit under a very wise pastor for ten years as he groomed me for the ministry.He taught me that there will always be wise men who will take a position and then try to prove it in the Bible.He said the way to be correct is to take your position from the Bible and let wise men try to disprove it. Now let me give you my country boy logic about women preachers.There are several kinds of fishermen just as there are several methods for catching fish . If we were having a fishing tournament to get enough fish for a fish fry and some came in with fish caught in nets and some came in with fish caught with poles and some came in with fish caught on trotlines and then some came in using an illegal method called telephoning. Our goal is to have a fish fry we throw nothing back into the water .As far as the law goes telephoning is illegal but we are throwing nothing back that has been harvested.I still stand by my convictions even though I give to missions and more than likely some of that money goes to help support women preachers on the mission field. I won't with hold offerings to missions because women might benefit from it.I haven't changed my opinion one bit ,yet if a woman preacher were sick I would pray for her, if her car broke down I try to get it going again never asking if she going to use it to go preach.I just try to follow the letter of the law as I see it.